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Old 11-28-2011, 07:01 AM
vartoooza vartoooza is offline
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Default Olympic squat more dangerous for knees?

According to this article http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/tya4.htm olympic squats (high bar) are more dangerous for knees.I'm currently doing low bar squats as Rippetoe learns but i'm struggling with technique for more than 2 months propably becos I have strange anthropometry (where my legs are very long and my thorso very short) and i'm considering to move to olympic style sqats.My knees hurts due to my bad sqat form thats why i'm asking what do you people think about that.Thanks!
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:32 AM
Daniel Bell Daniel Bell is offline
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Default High bar Olympic squats

Done right, there is nothing better for an athlete than high bar Olympic squats. The problem is with HOW they are done, not THAT they are done.

Most people are biased to the front of their bodies, so they tend to hit the bottom of high-bar squats with more pressure on the ball of the foot than they should. This is what places so much stress on the knees. Ideally, one should break at the hips first, pushing them back slightly, to get the weight toward the heels as the hips sweep down between the ankles, the knees are allowed to travel forward over the toes. When you hit rock bottom--ass to calves and low back flat and tight--the weight should be in the middle of the foot. Reverse that to rise.

The weight should NEVER be more forward in the foot than right in the middle, and you MUST go ass to calves (or try to, if your hamstrings are too tight to hit bottom), not parallel or just below. That is the only way to fully engage the hamstrings and glutes. This helps keep the proper balance of strength between the quads and hamstrings, REDUCING the possibility of knee pain and injury, not increasing it.

Never parallel squat again. It actually increases the incidence of knee injury by making the quads too strong and ignoring the hamstrings.
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  #3  
Old 11-28-2011, 07:58 AM
oxcart oxcart is offline
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Originally Posted by Daniel Bell View Post
Never parallel squat again. It actually increases the incidence of knee injury by making the quads too strong and ignoring the hamstrings.
Guess we should all stop front-squatting then too
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:59 AM
Judas Judas is offline
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Originally Posted by vartoooza View Post
According to this article www.bodybuilding.com...
There's your problem right there...
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  #5  
Old 11-28-2011, 09:51 AM
nonfcomm nonfcomm is offline
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Originally Posted by oxcart View Post
Guess we should all stop front-squatting then too
I think a slightly weaker conclusion should be taken, but the idea is sound. For some people, exclusively front squatting, or parallel squatting, can cause knee pain from muscular imbalance. My front squat is way behind my back squat, so I tried exclusively front squatting for about a month. At the end of the month, my knees were causing problems for my lifts. Once I added some pulls and back squats, things balanced out and the pain abated.
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:28 AM
BSmith BSmith is offline
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I think a slightly weaker conclusion should be taken, but the idea is sound. For some people, exclusively front squatting, or parallel squatting, can cause knee pain from muscular imbalance. My front squat is way behind my back squat, so I tried exclusively front squatting for about a month. At the end of the month, my knees were causing problems for my lifts. Once I added some pulls and back squats, things balanced out and the pain abated.
could have been that you were leaning too far forward doing front squats too...

or even too much squatting in relation to pulls/posterior chain work (this seems to happen with back squats too)
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  #7  
Old 11-28-2011, 11:10 AM
COACHMCCAULEY COACHMCCAULEY is offline
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Originally Posted by vartoooza View Post
According to this article http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/tya4.htm olympic squats (high bar) are more dangerous for knees.I'm currently doing low bar squats as Rippetoe learns but i'm struggling with technique for more than 2 months propably becos I have strange anthropometry (where my legs are very long and my thorso very short) and i'm considering to move to olympic style sqats.My knees hurts due to my bad sqat form thats why i'm asking what do you people think about that.Thanks!
vartooza,

Rubbish, of course. Let me reiterate what I have said before. NOBODY, THAT'S NOBODY should be doing low bar squats except powerlifters(because it is the form best used in the competitive squatting done in that sport). And, even they should only do them part of the year.

The high bar or Olympic squat, done to full range of motion and through the correct parts of the feet affects the functional, athletic strength far more than any other squat and is completely safe for the knees.

Doing low bar, parallel or 1/4 squats is a waste of prescious training time and will either hurt your body or give it no significantly new ability to produce force, unless you have been doing absolutely nothing.

CoachMc
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:45 AM
vartoooza vartoooza is offline
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Originally Posted by COACHMCCAULEY View Post
vartooza,

Rubbish, of course. Let me reiterate what I have said before. NOBODY, THAT'S NOBODY should be doing low bar squats except powerlifters(because it is the form best used in the competitive squatting done in that sport). And, even they should only do them part of the year.

The high bar or Olympic squat, done to full range of motion and through the correct parts of the feet affects the functional, athletic strength far more than any other squat and is completely safe for the knees.

Doing low bar, parallel or 1/4 squats is a waste of prescious training time and will either hurt your body or give it no significantly new ability to produce force, unless you have been doing absolutely nothing.

CoachMc

Its great to hear (read) that!Thank you very much for your response

Now, is there any book like Starting Strength that teach high bar (olympic) full ROM squat?I was looking for some guide through google but without much success.

Thanks
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  #9  
Old 11-28-2011, 11:56 AM
olympicweightlifting123 olympicweightlifting123 is offline
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Originally Posted by vartoooza View Post
Its great to hear (read) that!Thank you very much for your response

Now, is there any book like Starting Strength that teach high bar (olympic) full ROM squat?I was looking for some guide through google but without much success.

Thanks
The high bar squat movement doesn't really require much coaching because it is a natural movement. With that said, it can be done 2 ways: you sit straight down and come back up or you sit back on your heels slightly and use more hip drive to come back up (needs more lower back strength).

Both can be used to build up leg strength equally. Rigert used to use the latter. I prefer the former because I am more quad dominant I think.

One thing I noticed is that when people perform the high bar squat, most individuals look the same. The same cannot be said for the low bar squat. It looks a bit different for every lifter and I am not sure why.
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  #10  
Old 11-28-2011, 12:37 PM
Sean Waxman Sean Waxman is offline
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Default More squatting bullshit!

This is a question I answered in my Sept. 23rd newsletter "Shut UP and Lift." It doesn't specifically address the "Olympic" squat but it speaks about full vs. parallel squats.

I hope this helps a bit.


Eric from Elmira writes:

I saw your post online about the widespread myth of the danger of full squats. Where does the myth come from and why does it persist?

Dear Eric:
For as long as I've trained with a barbell on my back, I've always heard people warn against the perils of full squatting. And quite frankly, I'm tired of it.
The myth can be traced back to a single paper written by a University of Texas professor in 1961: "The Deep Squat as Utilized in Weight Training for Athletics and Its Effect on the Ligaments of the Knee, " by Karl Klein (originally published in the Journal of Physical and Mental Rehabilitation and later promoted in Sports Illustrated in 1962). Klein used a self-developed measuring device to conclude that squatting below parallel detrimentally loosened ligaments of the knee. In 50 years of subsequent research, Klein's findings have never been replicated. In fact, they have been refuted. Even further, a broad body of evidence has emerged that confirms deep squats, when performed properly, actually increase stability of the knee joint.
Despite total lack of support for Klein's original findings, the American Medical Association latched onto them almost immediately and the AMA put out a position statement in 1961 warning about the apparent dangers of squatting past parallel, citing the ""potential for severe injury (medial cartilage deterioration) to the internal and supporting structures of the knee joint."
Although subsequent research has found no evidence to support Klein, the AMA, or Sports Illustrated, this bullshit still lives on today.
I'll be addressing this very topic in further detail in an upcoming article. So please stay tuned.
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Waxman's Gym
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