The bastardization of OL in S & C for sports.

[Hawkpeter]

You all know what I mean. Do a search for 'hang clean football', sit back and cringe.

I spent the last 18 months getting a football player ready to enter college as a freshman and he departed here with a 130kg snatch, 160kg clean and 235kg back squat. We were very happy with those numbers.

Albeit, its only the first week of team coordinated lifting, but its 3 by 10 flat bench, decline, incline and medball push ups followed the next day by sets of 6 for hang snatch, 3 by 10 quarter squatting, push pressing, single leg squatting and lunging. 2 days of lifting and already nothing but DOMS for the whole team.

So, this is a bit of a rant, and seems to be the same everywhere, but any suggestions on how to handle it? My suggestion has been to keep some light quick lifting up in the afternoons as tolerated for recovery work as much as anything. Triples and doubles under 75%.

Crappy barbell lifting, body building, overloaded limited range powerlifting and strongman training has become the accepted practice for athletic prep yet so many athletes can't even squat down without falling over.

Just makes me mad.

End of rant.

[10xSnatchSquatter]

With those numbers I would assume most S&C coaches would let him do his own thing, as it must've worked. Maybe this one is on a power trip? Why not give him a call or ask the kid to talk to him?

[Hawkpeter]

I suspected that this would happen, but I was hopeful it would be a little better. Yes he has gotten some very strange looks and is the only guy on the whole roster who shows up to gym with lifting shoes, a belt, wraps etc.

As a freshman though (and the fact that he is a very quiet reticent kid) I fear he doesn't have the cache to make any claim other than 'just get on with the program'.

There is a S & C conference coming up that the uni is hosting, so my other suggestion has been to attend it, ask some poignant questions to the guest speakers and build some of that cache.

The clean record for the program last year was 165kg (ugly, I've seen it) Our goal was to break that record as a freshman this spring. That will also do wonders, just with this kind of training I fear him going backwards.

[NickHorton]

That's a painful story. Sadly, it ain't unique. There are a lot of S&C coaches out there who pay only lip service to the Oly lifts, half-ass them, and then spend the rest of their time doing the "silly" stuff.

You may want to email John Broz, as I hear that Rob Adell was doing all the football S&C work and practicing with his team AND lifting with Broz right on top of it. It would be interesting to hear what he had Rob do that was different (if at all) from what he's doing with the other athletes he has who he's got more control over.

I know when I'm working with CrossFit peeps, who also do high volume doms-inducing workouts, that I find it best to just have them do the one thing Crossfit (and most S&C guys) don't: Heavy work for low reps on the Oly lifts, squats, and pulls.

You may have to cut down the volume, but the intensity can be kept rather high. I do this with 30 and 40 something adults, I'm sure an 18 year old can handle it.

I have a highschool Basketball player who does hours and hours a day of practice AND does weight training for his other coach. When I get him (not as often as I'd like) the only things we do are snatch, CJ, squats, and deadlifts. I know he gets all the other stuff in spades. I'm gonna focus on giving him the one thing he ain't getting.

The downside of being a sports performance coach is that we often get thrown down to the bottom of the pile of what the parents, the sport coaches, and even the athletes themselves think is important. But, as we know, in the early stages of an athletes development, nothing is more important than proper strength and conditioning training.

I hope that helps, and good luck. Great work with that kid, btw.

[Michael George]

I will not get into a rant eventhough it's hard for me to hold back. I mean I was in a high school weightroom at half time of a basketball game I was attending and watched a few kids in the weightroom after a team football workout just getting in additional work. They were doing power cleans about as incorrectly as one can do them. Besides the obvious bad technique and lack of anyone with enough experience to guide them; they didn't even realize they didn't have the right equipment. I simply just spun the bars and noticed there wasn't any spin at all, noticed they were all wearing basketball shoes, no platforms, no bumpers, one kid was cleaning with straps, knee wraps and a belt. They almost had nothing but old bars and plates. Just as simple as coachess don't even realize they don't have the right equipment or footwear. Now I know it's impractical to make high school kids tell their parents to buy them weightlifting shoes when they are training for football, but at least make them aware this would be best if it's a feasible option.

On a related note I spoke with a mother who's son this past summer blew out every ligament and tendon in his one knee the first time he ever touched weights. He is an extremely heavy and out of shape incoming freshman in high school. An assistant coach who handled their strength and conditioning said come on you're a big boy, time to use some big weights. Put 315 on the bar the first time he ever squatted, started the descend on rep one and BOOM. The rest is history. This is the shit that is going on and what really bothers me the most is that the mother wasn't even mad at the coach who made him do that. She's like well i know weights can be dangerous , guess it happens. I'm like excuse my french but **** it does have to be that way. That's just as bad as making that mom try to bench press 225 right now. Sorry I ended up going into a rant. This is one story of so many I and sure all of us can share. I don't know what's worse in a way, this coach who is making his kids do that, or the coaches who told me I was too tall to squat so we don't want you to hurt your knees. Well I think the first example is worse but both are inexusable. Sorry, i'm done

[Powmongo]

At the Athletes Arena we have had 5 lumbar fractures and 17 severe injuries that required surgury from moronic coaches in the surrounding school districts of our area as well as some colleges. I have worked with 2 kids on scholarship who were well prepared to enter their freshman season with one obtaining a hernia from box squating and another tearing his acl. In South Carolina Orhtopedic centers like Moore Orthopedic are beginning to evaluate lifting programs in public schools and if kids get seriously hurt in the weight room those coaches will be fired.

[Hawkpeter]

Smokes, that's bad. That might at least get rid of the worst of the worst.

We all pay a price when an athlete gets injured in the weight room. It entrenches the myth over barbells and quick lifts or squatting being unsafe, and that they are too complex to do or to their full extent.

I feel better after my rant but sometimes I feel like belligerence is the only combat against this state.

[Powmongo]

when we get baseball players and they complain their shoulders hurt and they can't throw well we find out they bench 3 times a week at school. Gee wonder why. then they do powerlceans and front squats for sets of 10 reps and complain their knees hurt when running 3 miles for "mental toughness." We don't try to create an "us verses them" situation but at times we have to tell kids to look after their own safety and not perform exercises when their in pain. We are always willing to talk to coaches but many times in boils down to ego. then we just have to say to those coaches your hurting kids and we will inform doctors that they were hurt on your watch and they will step in. It has gotten ugly but its about safety and improvement for athletes.

[Hawkpeter]

Powmongo, a little off topic, but where do you stand on the 'throwing athletes shouldn't press over head' debate?

I haven't worked with any pitchers but I have QB's and javelin throwers. They press overhead and I've never experienced any issues with their performances.


What I don't understand about the college S & C programs is how they can't see that it's time well spent to use a freshman's first semester to really nail down some lifting skills. Then the programming is actually useful, instead of being unsupported by gawd-awful lifting mechanics.

I know the answer to my question... its because the guys running it dont have the skills to teach it. Grrrr

[Powmongo]

If an athlete demonstrates good flexibility we certainly have them do overhead lifting. various presses with barbell, dumbells, bands for stability, and some push presses. If however they come from a school that has them bench too often and they have poor mobility/flexibility we have them do numerous flexiblitry exercises and stop them from benching altogether until they regain mobility and can throw without pain. With throwing athletes we have them do a lot of shoulder and spinal decompression movements to.