Blue Collar pre-workout meal

[Matt1]

In general, how long should we wait before training after consuming a pre-workout meal?

My pre-workout meal is always breakfast because I train in the early morning. And I am always in a hurry to cook and eat my eggs and oatmeal. Then I have to WAIT for my food to digest (usually an hour).

So, Would it be practical to replace my usual breakfast with 2 glasses of milk, just like how the article says? Or maybe some whey protein with oatmeal blended in?

Thanks!

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25 y/o male, strength trainer
low bar squat 5RM 155 lbs (patellar tendinitis)
deadlift 5RM 235 lbs
Bench press 2RM 185 lbs

[HunterHenzler]

If I lift in the morning (which I tend to do) I normally train on a pretty empty stomach...
Maybe a cup of coffe w/ some coconut oil mixed in, and a bottle or 2 of water.

I then have a shake after training normally, assuming I'm in a time crunch


Just my .02

[CF Training Valley]

For me I do am session 3 times per week. before all of them I have a protein shake with about 12oz. of whole milk (nectar of the gods). Usually 45-1hr before. Easily digested and not heavy at all. During my workout I sip on some BCAA-pre/intra workout (Creatine Ethyl Ester, beta alanine, Arginine AKG, Taurine, D-Aspartic Acid).
Later in the day when I go back for the second session, my meal is usually 1-1.5hrs before that session. For me, I do well with that amount of time for my food to digest. I also again have the BCAA-pre/intra workout. Everyone is different and might need a little more time to digest food. My best advice is not to make it too heavy. Eggs and oatmeal may not be the best for that. Shake may be better, eggs and oatmeal after if you have time.

[Einherjar]

Originally Posted by CF Training Valley

For me I do am session 3 times per week. before all of them I have a protein shake with about 12oz. of whole milk (nectar of the gods). Usually 45-1hr before. Easily digested and not heavy at all. During my workout I sip on some BCAA-pre/intra workout (Creatine Ethyl Ester, beta alanine, Arginine AKG, Taurine, D-Aspartic Acid).
Later in the day when I go back for the second session, my meal is usually 1-1.5hrs before that session. For me, I do well with that amount of time for my food to digest. I also again have the BCAA-pre/intra workout. Everyone is different and might need a little more time to digest food. My best advice is not to make it too heavy. Eggs and oatmeal may not be the best for that. Shake may be better, eggs and oatmeal after if you have time.

Your pre-work out meal is fine, because it's easily digested. If it was more substantial, you'd be better waiting for 90 minutes (though I get away with under an hour). Depends on individual tolerances, and I suppose if you've got high intensity interval training thrown in there.

For pre-workout nutrition, something like 0.5g carbs and protein per lb in target BW is pretty good. Post work out nutrition can consist of protein only if you were resistance training, though some fruit may be handy to ward off any muscle catabolsim (fructose is metabolised only by the liver, and liver glycogen levels are one of the signals for muscle catabolism - so replenishing those seems sensible). Otherwise, if you've done some kind of glycogen depleting training, you might want to add in more carbs post work out, if you've got another session with 24 hours. Other than that, it's ok to eat normally. That's pretty handy if you're training to manage your weight.

In terms of your mid workout shake, unless your work out is over one hour, you shouldn't need anything if you pre work out nutrition was ok. After an hour, then you might want something .

You may be able to save a fair bit of money, and make your training more effective, though. I'd swap creatine ethyl ester for normal monohydrate. Ethyl ester may be metabolised too quickly to be of any use. And it's effectiveness has not been tested against monohydrate (which does work, and is cheaper).

BCAA's are not necessary if your overall protein is sufficient (1g / lb of target bodyweight) - they won't add anything, because your body already has sufficient BCAAs form the protein you are eating. They would be handy, perhaps, if you were training in a fasted state.

There is very little work done on the toxicity of beta alanine in humans, but in a study done on cats the scientists noticed pathalogical changes in the celebrium of cats treated with beta alanine. Of course they were cats and we are humans; humans are not cats, but we don't know what it might do in humans. And another study found retinal damage in cats. There are others. I took beta alanine myself until I found these test results. If you're taking creatine monohyrdate, there is probably no need to take beta alanine anyway.

D-aspartic acid needs to be taken daily in chunks of 3g a day to be effective (but more is not better), and it is effective at raising testosterone by some 40% (in some studies). It's been handy for curing erectile dysfunction and complete failure of lady lust, but it does not elevate testosterone levels by enough to increase the hypertrophic effect of lifting, etc. Might make you feel a bit more primal, which may lead to better sessions, though. And it could be good for guys who have naturally low test (over 40s).

[CF Training Valley]

Einherjar,
thanks for the advice main. I have found that for me monohydrate is a big NO, bloating/holding water/cramping, just something I've found for myself. CEE, no issues with, it's a much more absorbable creatine that I've found works for me. As far as diet, I'm no nutrition specialist but, for my schedule and training routine, it seems to be working for me. You have quite a bit of kowledge with this stuff, are you a nutritioist or something? The main reason I take the BCAA's is because it has electrolytes and b-vits in it. Not to mention that all the other supps I take tastes like ass without some sort of flavor inhancer to it. Beta alanine and creatine are actually paired up together for better beneifts, Poliquin reccommends this. And as far as D-Aspartic Acid goes, no dysfunction here but, cheap and simple way to increase test without having to cycle on/off of other supps. Thanks for the response Einherjar.

[Einherjar]

No worries. I take ginseng because the Chinese weightlifters take it, even though scientific studies show mixed results. I'm not always on the side of what the studies say (or don't).

I'm studying cellular function and nutrition, which is part of a broader degree on nutrition - whether I look at the full thing or not I don't know . I'm more doing it for interest, because it's way off topic for what I do for a living (at least for now). But I got into nutrition and biology reading about supplements on pub med, finding all the talk about metabolic pathways, etc, a little difficult to figure out on my own. And I consume about as much info as I can on this from sports science journals and experts. I suppose I just find it interesting, but it has to have some link back to sport. So I'm a sports-nutrition geek, but not a nutritionist by any stretch.

[powersnatch]

Originally Posted by Einherjar

No worries. I take ginseng because the Chinese weightlifters take it, even though scientific studies show mixed results. I'm not always on the side of what the studies say (or don't).

I'm studying cellular function and nutrition, which is part of a broader degree on nutrition - whether I look at the full thing or not I don't know . I'm more doing it for interest, because it's way off topic for what I do for a living (at least for now). But I got into nutrition and biology reading about supplements on pub med, finding all the talk about metabolic pathways, etc, a little difficult to figure out on my own. And I consume about as much info as I can on this from sports science journals and experts. I suppose I just find it interesting, but it has to have some link back to sport. So I'm a sports-nutrition geek, but not a nutritionist by any stretch.

Einherjar, can I ask where you study?

I too study (nutrition/dietetics and exercise science) and find myself having to learn much information on my own. University study certainly helps (using the vast biochemistry and physiology concepts we learn and then applying it to health and sports nutrition and scientific research) but I often feel there may be better options in my study, because I would prefer to focus on the areas of science of nutrition and metabolism/biochemistry rather than food itself. I tend to thrive on those sorts of subjects, and while I can certainly do well in other subjects, I simply lack passion and often struggle with motivation. Your course sounds quite relevant to my specific interests.

Studying nutrition/dietetics is sometimes a struggle since some of the recommendations and concepts they present are not always evidence based and there seems to be complete ignorance scientific literature in some cases. Do you find a similar problem in your course? Or is your course more directed at biochemical and metabolic pathways?

Thanks for any input.

[Einherjar]

I am studying with the Open University in the UK. I already have a degree in law and that's the industry I work in. So my studies in nutrition are purely for fun (possibly, I'm tempted to retrain). The OU is good for that, because it has a range of biology and health and nutrition courses, so I can select what modules I want to do - based on what looks like it is most directly relevant to my interest - without worrying about an overall qualification. So I pick what sounds like it will benefit me, at least for the time being.

From what I can gather, having looked into their pasts, the guys in this industry who might be considered experts (not self pro-claimed ones) earned their degree's in a range of non specialist health and nutrition qualifications, and then specialised in sports, sometimes by doing a specialist subject like protein synthesis in athletes during a caloric deficit, or just by building up a client base.

I spend a disproportionate amount of my time on pubmed. A lot of the work I review is not directly applicable to sports - for example comparisons of ketonegenic diets against moderate carb diets - because the demographic of the participants is different, or they weren't pursuing athletic goals, etc. But it's as good as sports science gets sometimes, it seems.

If it's any consolation, when I did my law degree, there were bits I just had an aptitude for and really enjoyed, and others I despised and wished were over. In practice, all elements have come in helpful, and I even enjoy some of the bits is use to dislike. It's just part and parcel of getting a broad knowledge.

I've also found that, whilst I started off enjoying sports related nutrition, I'm becoming quite interested in nutrition generally (obesity epidermic, etc). It's all good.