Bulgarian for Masters??

[azolylifter]

I am thinking about doing Nick Horton's (PDX Weightlifting) version of Bulgarian training. Basically, I would be doing:

Monday - Snatch to max plus 3 doubles, CJ to max, FS to max plus 2-3 doubles/triples
Tuesday - Power SN to max, Power Clean to max, BS to max plus 2-3 triples
Wednesay - rest day
Thursday - Same as Mon
Friday - same as Tues
Sat - same as Mon/Thurs

What does everybody think?? I'm 39 and compete in the 85's. Bests are around 90 SN and 120 CJ.

[JohnCaesar]

Do it. I am interested to see how it turns out.

[azolylifter]

Do it. I am interested to see how it turns out.

Thanks!!

I did a shortened version of it last year for about 6 weeks and it worked pretty well. If I do it here, I will start it after my June 23rd meet.

[Joel]

Good topic.

I've always wondered about Bulgarian for master lifters. I used to train 4 days a week, then eventually cut it to 3 x a week as I got (relatively) strong (for my age).

[David Woodhouse]

Like Nick alot but the worst possible thing a Master lifter can do is adopt a Bulgarian training program. You are not a genetic outlier, you cannot have a two hour nap every afternoon and most importantly... you are not having daily injections of testosterone suspension!!

My next article is going to illustrate how little training a Master actually requires to reach the World top 5...

[Joel]

Like Nick alot but the worst possible thing a Master lifter can do is adopt a Bulgarian training program. You are not a genetic outlier, you cannot have a two hour nap every afternoon and most importantly... you are not having daily injections of testosterone suspension!!

My next article is going to illustrate how little training a Master actually requires to reach the World top 5...

Good deal. Please share with the rest with once you finish the article. Thanks.

[Einherjar]

Like Nick alot but the worst possible thing a Master lifter can do is adopt a Bulgarian training program. You are not a genetic outlier, you cannot have a two hour nap every afternoon and most importantly... you are not having daily injections of testosterone suspension!!

My next article is going to illustrate how little training a Master actually requires to reach the World top 5...

Really interested in reading this.

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

this is not entirely Bulgarian or Nick's system, but for kicks, I saw how many days I could squat 190kg for sets of 5+ during the Month of June just because. I have no idea what my max squat is and I doubt I'll ever try it because I don't really have the inspiration for that anymore.

I had a major competitions in my sport on June 1-3, then another small on on June 9 - so I didn't lift then. But otherwise, I squatted 22 out of the 30 days during June. Every time I went to at least 415/190 for sets of 5. 10 of those days I did the 415 for sets of 10 - again, just because. Two days I went crazy and did it for one set of 20.

Right now, that same 190 feels like 60. But I'm back to doing it every other day and doing my event work on the off days.

I'm 42 and not a spring chicken. I'm very surprised because I didn't think I would be able to do it. I'm much stronger now I think. I also recover faster. And I am doing full movements without fear - which speaks volumes as I've been very averse for 22 months now after a knee injury that resulted in surgery.


All the best,
Arden

[azolylifter]

Well, just to let everyone know, I will be starting this program the week of July 23rd. I'm running Smolov Jr for Back Squats right now, just did Day 2 of the program yesterday, along with some presses for a short strength cycle. This was actually Nick's recommendation to bring my squat strength up and volume up, except he recommended the regular Smolov base mesocycle. I can't get through the 9's and 7's on that program, so I decided on the Jr version for me.

I'll continue to update this thread in the future so that other Master lifters can see how it turns out.

One other thing, I do have a couple job interviews next week, so if I get one of them, I'll have to figure a couple of things out schedule-wise!! :D

[PDM]

"Bulgarian" seems to be the CrossFit of weightlifting. Seems like a lot of folks think it is the way to forge "elite snatches/clean and jerks". Like CrossFit, its basic principles should be followed by most lifters...focus on the snatches, C&Js, front squats and do them heavy. But, also like CrossFit, most of us will be crushed by the volume prescribed.

[kecks]

do it, but only for a few weeks. adjust along the way. switch to something not so drastic after that and maybe go back to the bulgarian thing after that.

[Tretzik]

For what it's worth: I've been following a Bulgarianish template for three months. I'm 42 105 kg. 115sn 147cj 167fs 190bs.
I do two workouts a day 6 days a week. Looks some thing like this
Morning: snatch AHAP then 5 to 8 sets of double or singles minus 10 to 20kg
Afternoon: front squat AHAP. Single double or triple

Morning: clean and jerk same as above
Afternoon back squat same as above

Will occasionally do jerks off the blocks to rest the legs a bit and only cleans to rest the shoulders. Squat max effort every day.

Some days suck really bad. Some days I think are going to suck and don't and some days are the best days ever.

In three months I've added 10kg to my snatch 12 kg to my clean and jerk and 10 kg to my squat. I can pretty much hit 5 kg under my maxes on a daily basis.

It's been three months and no problems so far. I have another masters lifter following almost the same program 47yo 53 kg 57 sn 70 cj 112 sq.

No idea what will happen down the road but so far it's going well.

[PDM]

For what it's worth: I've been following a Bulgarianish template for three months. I'm 42 105 kg. 115sn 147cj 167fs 190bs.
I do two workouts a day 6 days a week.

What do you do for a paycheck? Do you have a family? What do you do for recovery?

[Tretzik]

Well in all fairness I do own a gym and practically live there. As far as recovery goes I think the secret is to eat A LOT of good food. I probably eat 5500 to 6500 calories a day. So far the only problem with the program I am having is staying in my weight class. I'm a solid 108 now and am starting to get worried about losing 3kg for the American Masters. I was 100 when I started. Super heavy here I come.

[PDM]

Okay, so a Bulgarian-ish program can work for a Master's Weightlifter if...

1. You own a gym and practically live there
2. Can manage 6000kcals/day of good quality food
3. Do not mind gaining a few kilos

How is the other master's lifter life? I am interested because you have gotten success as a master's lifter with a Bulgarian program. Thank you.

[Tretzik]

The other lifter is doing fine. Normal life runs her own business and has two kids. Aside from schedule and time constraints I think what is important is the underlying principal that the body will adapt to what ever you make it do. You have to believe that and not back off when things get tough and with this type of training they will. I think too many people try it and when things start to suck they quit. Those are the day you have to just man up and take your lumps. I had days when I struggled to snatch 85kg and days when I could hit multiple reps 5 kg under my max and feel great doing it. Or have a new PR feel easy. I just went through 2 really tough weeks where everything felt heavy. A missed heavy attempt was followed by not even able to get the bar past my knees. You just keep pushing and the body will adapt. If you want to lift heavy weight you gotta lift heavy weight a lot.

[oldgit]

i like nick hortons ideas,basically doing a lot of frequency at as high an intensity as possible,but low volume,really low volume sometimes. i have been trying this in recent months-snatching and c&j each three times a week-but just doing 1-2 sets of singles at 90-100% or doubles at 85-90% of intended max-and my groove in the lifts and technique has improved dramatically-when u fart around with weights below 80% you never know if your technique is bad-i can hit 80% of my best snatch every time even with rubbish technique and bent arm pulling etc etc-but when that kg gets towards your max-thats when you will fail if ur tech is not at least 90% correct. so i do a week of doubles,then a week of singles and then a de-load week of 60% and repeat

[azolylifter]

oldgit - I'll be revamping my programming to do basically that. It will be low volume, moderate intensity. I won't be going up to 90%+ for awhile. Basically will be hitting positions for a bit between 70-85% for most of the training. I'll slowly move it up to the 90-100% range when I get closer to a meet.

I like alot of Horton's ideas also, but I think for Master lifters it's not so great to keep going without planned deloads. That's the basic deal I'll be doing is periodizing my program a bit more. We'll see if it works when I lift at the Arnold (?)

[Randy Hauer]

i don't know what the real bulgarian program is, sans drugs, and i would dispute that anyone else really does know with certainty. perhaps masters under 45 can deal with heavier loading day in day out, women perhaps a little older since the absolute loads are still far less. But the guys with the longest, injury free careers don't push momentary maxes daily. they live in the 75-85% 1rm world the majority of the time.

as far as I can tell, the american proponents of the so called bulgarian method in any age group invariably leave their best lifts in the gym, not on the comp platform where it counts. "world's strongest teenager" would be a 30kg example of that.

[azolylifter]

i don't know what the real bulgarian program is, sans drugs, and i would dispute that anyone else really does know with certainty. perhaps masters under 45 can deal with heavier loading day in day out, women perhaps a little older since the absolute loads are still far less. But the guys with the longest, injury free careers don't push momentary maxes daily. they live in the 75-85% 1rm world the majority of the time.

as far as I can tell, the american proponents of the so called bulgarian method in any age group invariably leave their best lifts in the gym, not on the comp platform where it counts. "world's strongest teenager" would be a 30kg example of that.

Thank you so much for this post!! I've since abandoned that program and I'm now working in the fabled 70-85% zone for most of my lifting!! :D

[David Woodhouse]

Thank you so much for this post!! I've since abandoned that program and I'm now working in the fabled 70-85% zone for most of my lifting!! :D


The absolute worst thing that a Master (or ANY) lifter can do is follow a Bulgarian program...

People like Broz and Kennedy have alot to answer for. It's one thing to take gear to make yourself internationally competitive and another entirely to aggressively promote a drug fuelled training program to clean novice lifters... And then have the gall to mock them when they question you.

How in the world he avoided getting called out on that I will never know.

[glennpendlay]

The absolute worst thing that a Master (or ANY) lifter can do is follow a Bulgarian program...

People like Broz and Kennedy have alot to answer for. It's one thing to take gear to make yourself internationally competitive and another entirely to aggressively promote a drug fuelled training program to clean novice lifters... And then have the gall to mock them when they question you.

How in the world he avoided getting called out on that I will never know.

Maybe I am being dense, but what Kennedy are you referring too?

[Mabus]

Maybe I am being dense, but what Kennedy are you referring too?
I believe he's taking about John F. Kennedy, who surely answered mightily for his advocacy of a Bulgarian weighlifting program for natural masters athletes.

[Will Peterson]

The Kennedy is most likely Clarence.

Is he on here?

I've not seen much more than the occasional video or snarky comment out there.

[Boogz]

If he is talking about Clarence, he doesn't even use a bulgarian/brozgarian system...

In the sample week of training he had, there were a ton of submax doubles and triples in Sn,CnJ,power versions,Fs,Bs,pulls. Front squat was only maxed out once a week, back squat never was. There were barely any missed lifts the entire week, and Sn/CnJ were only taken really heavy once a week.

Clarence's answers to youtube questions and websites have helped my own training a bunch, as well as studying his form on the lifts and squats.

[David Woodhouse]

If he is talking about Clarence, he doesn't even use a bulgarian/brozgarian system...

In the sample week of training he had, there were a ton of submax doubles and triples in Sn,CnJ,power versions,Fs,Bs,pulls. Front squat was only maxed out once a week, back squat never was. There were barely any missed lifts the entire week, and Sn/CnJ were only taken really heavy once a week.

Clarence's answers to youtube questions and websites have helped my own training a bunch, as well as studying his form on the lifts and squats.


Clarence is geared off his fcking face.... But that's not what concerns me. What concerns me is him creating a website that advises other (clean) lifters to adopt a similar training system. What concerns me is the condescending comments aimed at those who question whether progress can be made on a high frequency training program.

The problem with this sport is that novice lifters don't know who to turn to for training advice because programs have been completely warped by the use of anabolics. They're probably best advised to go back pre Ziegler and look at what Kono et al were doing...

[Boogz]

Clarence is geared off his fcking face.... But that's not what concerns me. What concerns me is him creating a website that advises other (clean) lifters to adopt a similar training system. What concerns me is the condescending comments aimed at those who question whether progress can be made on a high frequency training program.

The problem with this sport is that novice lifters don't know who to turn to for training advice because programs have been completely warped by the use of anabolics. They're probably best advised to go back pre Ziegler and look at what Kono et al were doing...

What makes you so sure he uses? The kid is a genetic freak with amazing flexibility,speed,kinesthetic awareness,and technique.

You'd be hard pressed to find someone who says Jon North is on gear, and while he is a great athlete, he only started training seriously for this sport at 22, and did a fair amount of partying etc. in his younger days.

Clarence has been lifting since he was 15! and he'd been flipping around and staying really active before that. He's squatted pretty much daily for 3 years. He is not going to school, weightlifting is his job. He doesn't drink or smoke or party. His form is practically flawless on limit lifts. How is it that hard to conceive he is clean, and just trains hard and is dedicated? He's putting up the same numbers as North.

Not everyone is as naturally talented as you to thrive off of crazy low frequency. Not everyone is injury prone. Some people's talent lies in there ability to handle a high workload (read: adapt quickly to a given stimulus).

When clarence advises people to squat every day, I don't think he also advises to do that while partying and getting little sleep and eating crap. If you want to reach your genetic ceiling (which is different for everyone), twice a week isn't going to cut it. If you're a really talented lifter who has a bunch of potential and are content with being pretty good as opposted to great, it'll probably get the job done.

[David Woodhouse]

What makes you so sure he uses? The kid is a genetic freak with amazing flexibility,speed,kinesthetic awareness,and technique.

You'd be hard pressed to find someone who says Jon North is on gear, and while he is a great athlete, he only started training seriously for this sport at 22, and did a fair amount of partying etc. in his younger days.

Clarence has been lifting since he was 15! and he'd been flipping around and staying really active before that. He's squatted pretty much daily for 3 years. He is not going to school, weightlifting is his job. He doesn't drink or smoke or party. His form is practically flawless on limit lifts. How is it that hard to conceive he is clean, and just trains hard and is dedicated? He's putting up the same numbers as North.

Not everyone is as naturally talented as you to thrive off of crazy low frequency. Not everyone is injury prone. Some people's talent lies in there ability to handle a high workload (read: adapt quickly to a given stimulus).

When clarence advises people to squat every day, I don't think he also advises to do that while partying and getting little sleep and eating crap. If you want to reach your genetic ceiling (which is different for everyone), twice a week isn't going to cut it. If you're a really talented lifter who has a bunch of potential and are content with being pretty good as opposted to great, it'll probably get the job done.


I have up most respect for his lifts. Technically he is flawless and even with gear those lifts are massive for someone of his age and years in the sport... BUT he is not clean. When you've been in the game a while you just know the signs.

We were having the same discussions last year about Mendes and Adell and look how that turned out. As I said above, I don't care what choices people make as individuals, I care what they preach to impressionable novices.

[oldgit]

in reply to pdm-just use much less volume,keep the frequency and intensity if you can,just deload more often than bulgarians i just find when i lift in 75-85% range you can use not great form and technique but still make the lift-its only when you attempt 90%+ that you find out if your tech is as it should be.

[Gary Gibson]

The absolute worst thing that a Master (or ANY) lifter can do is follow a Bulgarian program...
Yep.
The problem with this sport is that novice lifters don't know who to turn to for training advice because programs have been completely warped by the use of anabolics. They're probably best advised to go back pre Ziegler and look at what Kono et al were doing..
Sounds good.
Not everyone is as naturally talented as you to thrive off of crazy low frequency. Not everyone is injury prone. Some people's talent lies in there ability to handle a high workload (read: adapt quickly to a given stimulus).
Per our recent discussion over in my log, the injury-prone master probably shouldn't attempt anything remotely resembling Bulgarian programming, ever, under any circumstances. And some of us thrive most off of volume instead of either frequency or intensity.;)

[Boogz]

Yep.

Sounds good.

Per our recent discussion over in my log, the injury-prone master probably shouldn't attempt anything remotely resembling Bulgarian programming, ever, under any circumstances. And some of us thrive most off of volume instead of either frequency or intensity.;)


Neither in your log or here have i trumpeted bulgarian training!

High frequency does not = bulgarian.

Gary, I've seen some of your old logs on some other forums. Again, i'm not attacking, just interested. Here's a workout you did:

"Snatch
,40 kg x miss, x 1, x 1, x 1, x miss, x1
,50 kg x 1, x 1, x 1
,55 kg x 1, x 1
,60 kg x miss, x 1
,65 kg x 1
,67 kg x 1
,69 kg x miss, x 1 (PB)
,70 kg x miss, x 1 (PB)
,71 kg x 1 (PB)
,72 kg x miss, x miss
,60 kg x miss, x miss"

look at all those misses!!!! and over the years there are a ton of workouts that looked like this, some a ton worse in terms of misses. you did high frequency, most likely with sloppy technique (how else do you miss a 40kg snatch?), and a high volume near the max weight you could throw up. Even if this wasn't at all close to your max squat at the time, a bunch of sloppy misses at really low weights will aggravate anyone's knees over time.

Sloppy technique, while more prevalent in the lifts, can also happen in squats. If you set yourself a program and decide to get those lifts at all costs the ending reps won't be as pretty.

You say you need volume, fine. I do too actualy. Lets say you need 100 "units" of volume to progress. Lets see, thrashing yourself twice in 10 days and using 50 units of volume in those sessions OR using 10 units of volume a day. What's more likely to cause injury?

Forum member Stevens put it nicely when he said "anyone can brute force their way to a double bodyweight lift"(referring to squats). Slap on a belt, give me some knee wraps and let me have some ammonia and shit! even a skinny distance runner like me can get it. But at what price?

If you want to call it bulgarian to employ high frequency, submax, positions and speed as the focus, then fine. But it's not. If you use sloppy form and killer volume with a high frequency, then even supermans knees will hurt. When you say you've tried smolov and bulgarian etc. that's not the training i'm referring to.

I agree clean athletes shouldn't follow bulgarian training. I don't agree brute forcing it twice a week will prevent injury. Nor is only being active twice a week good for general health, but that's besides the point.

Good discussion!

[Gary Gibson]

Neither in your log or here have i trumpeted bulgarian training!

High frequency does not = bulgarian.

Gary, I've seen some of your old logs on some other forums. Again, i'm not attacking, just interested. Here's a workout you did:

"Snatch
,40 kg x miss, x 1, x 1, x 1, x miss, x1
,50 kg x 1, x 1, x 1
,55 kg x 1, x 1
,60 kg x miss, x 1
,65 kg x 1
,67 kg x 1
,69 kg x miss, x 1 (PB)
,70 kg x miss, x 1 (PB)
,71 kg x 1 (PB)
,72 kg x miss, x miss
,60 kg x miss, x miss"

look at all those misses!!!! and over the years there are a ton of workouts that looked like this, some a ton worse in terms of misses. you did high frequency, most likely with sloppy technique (how else do you miss a 40kg snatch?), and a high volume near the max weight you could throw up. Even if this wasn't at all close to your max squat at the time, a bunch of sloppy misses at really low weights will aggravate anyone's knees over time.

Sloppy technique, while more prevalent in the lifts, can also happen in squats. If you set yourself a program and decide to get those lifts at all costs the ending reps won't be as pretty.

You say you need volume, fine. I do too actualy. Lets say you need 100 "units" of volume to progress. Lets see, thrashing yourself twice in 10 days and using 50 units of volume in those sessions OR using 10 units of volume a day. What's more likely to cause injury?

Forum member Stevens put it nicely when he said "anyone can brute force their way to a double bodyweight lift"(referring to squats). Slap on a belt, give me some knee wraps and let me have some ammonia and shit! even a skinny distance runner like me can get it. But at what price?

If you want to call it bulgarian to employ high frequency, submax, positions and speed as the focus, then fine. But it's not. If you use sloppy form and killer volume with a high frequency, then even supermans knees will hurt. When you say you've tried smolov and bulgarian etc. that's not the training i'm referring to.

I agree clean athletes shouldn't follow bulgarian training. I don't agree brute forcing it twice a week will prevent injury. Nor is only being active twice a week good for general health, but that's besides the point.

Good discussion!
Oh man...You done got personal!

Yeah, I wouldn't look at any of my "Olympic weightlifting" training as model for anything. :p In fact, I'd call my classic lift training an outright shit show. Every time I've started up weightlifting, it was as a rank novice because I never developed any consistency at all. I'd have a powerlifter's strength (hip based) and lack the strength distribution not to shoot my hips up on the first pull. No amount of practice or coaching will fix that when your deadlift is almost 500 lbs and your front squat is just over 200 lbs; I needed to be stronger in the right places first. (Part of the experiment I'm running on myself is to see how much easier it is to hit the proper positions after letting my deadlift and low bar back strength stagnate or decline while adding 100 lbs to my front squat.) So I'd start the lifts every few months then stop in frustration after a few weeks because my form just kept sucking.

But I wouldn't slander my squatting, especially after I switched to the high bar (without wraps) and took off the belt (something I'm actually reconsidering). I used volume to get to double bodyweight high bar, did it without belt or wraps and it was one of the proudest moments of my training life (I even set the video to moody music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFEDE59jFKc&feature=g-upl)). I repeated the feat smoothly a few days later and then did another 20 lbs with light wraps. I got to a double bodyweight low bar squat with a belt over a year before that and I can tell you I was much, much weaker then. Low bar + belt after a few weeks of practice adds about 100 lbs over my high bar. The belt "adds" more than twice as much as knee wraps for me. (I'd lowbar/belted 418 in USAPL comp before that at 179 and like to think after my naked high bar 365, I could have gotten over 450 in competition at the same bodyweight, and note that I treat the low bar as a skill to be trained for competition, not as training tool). My weightlifting efforts have so far sucketh, but I'm happy with my progress in brute strength as a powerlifter. Nothing near stellar, but definitely got bigger and stronger than I thought was possible for me.

This is where I really think I need to clarify with you. I'm not saying a trainee can't get injured with the low frequency training I'm using now. I'm saying my knees would rather I wait a few days after any stress, including just bodyweight squats, before doing it again. Also, I've been more "generally active" and my knees really didn't like that. The worst they've ever been was when I ran and jumped a lot on top of squatting. And I certainly wasn't squatting frequently or with much volume at the time. I discovered the painful way that I have to mix and match what I do very carefully if I want to keep squatting. In fact I'm better off treating squats as "off season" preparatory work. While I'm squatting, other activities involving my knees have to be curbed if I don't want to have to drain my knees every couple of days.

What I do think is that some things work better for some people. The approach that you don't like is the one that has produced the most results for me. You're faster under the bar than I am and a more efficient classic lifter who can get under more weight than I can and with less squat strength...but I've still managed to get decent results on my strength lifts by "thrashing myself a couple times per week" with volume. I think it was David who pointed out in another thread that some of the strongest men in the world train the squat just once per week. So let's not be so quick to dismiss less frequent training!

So you're just talking high frequency here? Something more like what Tsatsouline or Justa would recommend where you gently float to greater strength using snappy maxes and just a dash of volume? For my goals (more thigh and ass meat I can use for stuff besides squatting) and limitations (knees will refill if I even walk too often), I need to tune the dial away from the daily thing and up the volume.

Sorry for the length of this and for the derail...

[Boogz]

good post Gary.

I agree different things work for different people. I've said this a bunch already but just for emphasis, I did not mean to come off attacking your lifts at all! :) Merely pointing out reasons why frequency may not have gelled with you in the past and I think this was actually a good discussion.

Your squats are quite good! I would love to have your squat numbers while maintaining my speed and coordination.

Making this more general to the whole "Bulgarian for masters" deal, I think high frequency needs to be seperated from Bulgarian.

Out of frequency, intensity, and volume, I think two of the three can be pushed pretty hard if weightlifting is not your profession. And like you said, different combinations will work better for different people.

I've learnt over time my knees love consistencecy. Doing something every day makes my technique so much better and my body very in tune with itself.

I'm interested in your front squat experiment!

[Gary Gibson]

Let me add that when I took David's advice I quickly got a 10-kilo PR on my snatch (pretty) and my clean (not so pretty) very early on. The best progress was on my front squat which rapidly climbed to new heights. My snatch and clean, however, just stalled and then declined. But conditions to train the competition lifts weren't ideal at the time (I was traveling again) and I probably wasn't getting enough calories or sleep. Still, if I hadn't been so greedy with the weight jumps in successive sessions of front squats, I probably would have gone a lot further with it...

...In fact, this discussion has me itching to try this system again when I return from my little layoff tomorrow. I do like volume and I could use some of the bodyweight it would bring...but I also need to watch the frequency and volume because of my knees. David has claimed that a trainee could get to a double bodyweight front squat on nothing more complicated than front squatting to a new heavy triple max twice per week (http://pendlayforum.com/showpost.php?p=29657&postcount=6). Basic single factor linear progression. Always wanted to see how far I could get on a linear progression without giving in to the temptation to make big jumps or switch to a more complicated two factor routine relying on supercompensation during rest periods.

[David Woodhouse]

It is vitally important that, beyond the early novice phase, increments do not exceed 1kg per session. Training is a test of patience and discipline. Those who can resist the urge to train more frequently and increase loads too quickly will progress for longer.

If your current front squat 3rm is 150x3. Start at 145x3 and add 1kg per session...

[Gary Gibson]

Training is a test of patience and discipline. Those who can resist the urge to train more frequently and increase loads too quickly will progress for longer.
Quotable.

It is vitally important that, beyond the early novice phase, increments do not exceed 1kg per session....

If your current front squat 3rm is 150x3. Start at 145x3 and add 1kg per session...
I'm still a novice in terms of the front squat and the classic lifts. I'm also pushing 40 and have put a lot of miles on my knees with high volume/high frequency routines. What if my completely unassisted 3RM is 100 (maybe 115 w/ belt and wraps)? Is there a general point below which you've found that 2kg jumps/session are better? Or should it just stay 1kg always (with 1kg representing a smaller percentage jump as the lifter gets stronger)?

Also I'd have to add in unloading weeks. I find that no matter how gentle the program in terms of volume and frequency, I have to give my knees a little time off every few weeks to recover completely. Every loaded squat causes a tiny bit of an effusive reaction and over a few weeks it builds up so that there is a lot of fluid in my knees. Wraps help a lot by taking a lot of the force at the bottom, but the trauma still adds up. It has helped me immensely to look at training as literally injuring myself even when things go right! Anyway, I hope you publish that article on minimalist Masters training. I could use it.

[David Woodhouse]

You will ignore me I'm sure but if you are getting such a severe reaction to training then I would genuinely consider finding a different sport. After 3 knee operations I was forced to do just that.

Yes, to clarify, I would recommend 1kg jumps for anyone who has been training more than 3 months.

I wrote the article, "70 reps to a World Title" (that's reps pre week) but my subject asked me not to publish .

[stevens]

Whenever frequency is mentioned a common overreaction is: 'ZOMG, 32 squat sessions per week!!', but perhaps what's important here is what counts as frequency, or what doesn't count. INfrequency means inconsistency, and leads nowhere. Some frequency is important and the reason it's useful is because it means you can split up your workload, obviously. More sessions does not automatically mean more volume, BUT it is possible to split the work up too much so that there's not enough stimulus per session. We must find some middle ground rather than playing tug of war with one another.

I am one of those impressionable youngsters that had my eyes opened by Broz. At first I laughed, but then I tried it and it did open my eyes. Sure, I got injured 3 times, once enough to keep me out for 2 months and that knackered my progress. But now that I've tried it out I've learned from my mistakes and come to some understanding.

I don't think it's unfair to state that most people warning against an uber high frequency approach have never tried it, nor will they ever. You can't speak out against something you've never tried. Having said that, some of the comments warning against the- 'on paper this looks like madness!'- approach are (in my humble option) correct. This has little to do with the frequency but more to do with the actual volume.

Anyone can do too much volume. If you only lift once per week you have just that one chance to fit everything in and you have to do well or wait a whole week for your next chance. High frequency removes this pressure. Is it any wonder that you have to get in more recovery when you fit in all your work into one or two sessions every week? Do a little bit every day without any pressure to lift more weight and see where it takes you. Of course no-one is willing to do that, because many people don't just lift to keep fit. It is the deep seated dissatisfaction with the weights we are using that leads us to always want more, even when those desires are- more often than not- unrealistic.

My heart goes out to people whose passion has led to the opposite effect of breaking their bodies, frustrating them, demoralizing them, making them weaker instead of stronger. Shouldn't lifting be fun, make us more passionate and happy? I think so, but often this journey isn't so much fun more like hard graft. Happily I will never be a career lifter, and I would encourage any potential recreational lifters to enjoy their passion and expect good results even if they do not work so hard to the point of misery. Successful lifting hinges upon yourself not upon any theoretical ideas about frequency or volume or percentages. In other words what counts to you as a success.

In my view it is good practice and a moderate amount of stimulus that will keep your body healthy and allow you to recover. This is more than just a case totting up repetitions and number of sessions, which says nothing alone about how you will fare.

Good luck!

[cej101112]

i've had great success with exact program..then switched to all heavy allthe time program. LOW VOLUME HIGH INTENSITY. Since i work full time, i lifted every chance i got for 2 1/2 months, max single snatch for day followed by 2 dobles, max c+j for day single, 2 doubles, max 1 fr squat. 15 min rest between sets. my #s went up 10kg. snatch/15kg. c+j. no dope.lot of shitty #'s one day then great ones the next. trained like this til couldn't hack it after several weeks, then trained only 2/3 times week for two weeks with double fr squats. back at it now, #'s still there, form's never been better and back squat single went up 15kg. 43 year old 105, 122 snatch/137 c+j.

[Gary Gibson]

You will ignore me I'm sure but if you are getting such a severe reaction to training then I would genuinely consider finding a different sport. After 3 knee operations I was forced to do just that.
That's apt advice and it's getting easier to consider as I'm getting older. I caught a light clean (135 lbs) slightly wrong a few days ago and messed something up in one of my knees again. Just drained 30 cc of blood and synovial fluid (mostly blood) from that knee tonight. Doesn't take much with my knees. They are either getting extra fluid from even a hint of overuse or they're getting acutely injured and filling with blood. I can still squat safely as long as I'm careful (not too much frequency and using wraps religiously for 135 and up). But, yeah, a sport that relies on catching hundreds of pounds of falling barbell in the squat position...maybe not a good for me.

[JeffDaniels]

Like Nick like a lot, but the worst possible things Master lifts can do, is to take the training program in Bulgaria. You is not a genetic anomaly value, you can not have a two-hour nap every afternoon and most important ... you is not a daily injection of testosterone suspension!