Overtraining v Under Recovery

[Michael Hartman]

What are your thoughts on under-recovery vs overtraining? My humble view is underr-recovery is more prominent but I also disagree with some who say overtraining doesn't exist for the most part. Any key indicators to be aware of to distinguish the two?

Great question for discussion and I am very interested in hearing other opinions on this as well. For the most part, overtraining and under recovery can be lumped together. They both can lead to the development of the other. I tend to define them separately, just for consistency and explanation purposes. Overtraining is fatigue and a decrement in performance due to too much training...or training stress. Under recovery is the accumulation of fatigue and a decrement in performance due to inadequacy of recovery outside of the gym, which includes restoration, nutrition, sleep, etc. I tend to think of under recovery as life stress. So, overtraining is strictly from training, and under recovery is everything else.

Overtraining is real, but it is very misunderstood and grossly overstated by most people. 99% of people will never experience overtraining, and maybe only 5-10% of athletes. Now, fatigue is common and a normal response to training. For full blown overtraining to occur that fatigue would have to accumulate over a period of months. Most people will take a few days off, or an overuse injury limits their training, before overtraining develops. If tendonitis flairs up in your knee and reduces your ability to squat, that is not overtraining. Two separate issue, overtraining and overuse (possibly a future post). Overtraining is a whole system issue which has effects on the endocrine, neuromuscular, and cardiorespiratory systems.

Competitive athletes are more susceptible because of the demands of competition, desire to win, etc., but mostly the inability to take time off due to their sport. Think about a post-collegiate athlete who gave up his day job to move to the OTC to train for the next Olympics, which also means lifting well at Nationals in May, Team Trials in August, Worlds in November, and other competitions throughout the year to keep their resident spot and monthly stipend.

Under recovery is a separate and possibly much bigger issue. Under recovery can effect all trainees regardless of training stress or training status and is caused by things outside of training; lack of sleep, inadequate nutrition, emotional stress, etc. Your life outside the gym has to support what you want to accomplish inside the gym. Things get tricky because of how we ultimately define or diagnose both conditions...a decrease in performance. We all know people that training like crap, eat like crap, and still make improvements. Whereas other people have everything "perfect" and continue to stall in progress. So, if performance does not drop off is an athlete really overtrained or under recovered? Performance can increase or decrease inspite of many things.

So, overtraining and under recovery are separate but similar issue. Both are very, very individual things and despite years of research (10+ in my case) we are just scratching the surface of the actual causes and diagnosis.

I'd like to get other opinions from the other coaches and athletes on here as well.

[Kris]

Thanks for this post. Great food for thought.

[mhansbrough]

[QUOTE=Michael Hartman;16000]
I tend to think of under recovery as life stress. So, overtraining is strictly from training, and under recovery is everything else.

Your life outside the gym has to support what you want to accomplish inside the gym.
QUOTE]

For me personally, what I do or don't do outside of the gym, has always had a greater impact on my total than what I do inside the gym. But I've always been the guy who almost always works at 11 on a 1-10 RPE scale. That's partly b/c now I'm self-coached and over-ambitious and partly b/c I'm stupid/stubborn. To me that's the flaw with RPE's- a 7 to me could be a 9-10 for someone else or vice-versa, even for experienced athletes.

Thinking of under recovery as life stress is an interesting way of stating it. I think this is a good reason why keeping a journal of things done outside the gym would be beneficial. Obviously, this may prove too time consuming to be practical but over time it would encourage improvements- much like even the most responsible person keeping a budget.

Ideally a person could improve through what I would call improving under recovery, but in many instances it may be necessary to "close the gap." i.e. decrease life stresses/use recovery methods (ala "Blue Collar Recovery") AND make adjustments to the training load.

Great news about you writing a book. Between that, Glenn's future book, and CoachMc's book I'll feel like an oversexed guy in a bordello (figuratively speaking of course).

[stevens]

I train using a small number of highly specific exercises. Using only two exercises on a regular basis does result in over-working particular muscle groups, stopping me from using those exercises effectively and keeping me away from the gym.

Most people I see lifting around me use only their hands with an infinite array of barbells, machines, dumbells, ropes and cables. A few attempt to do pulls, myself included. What few pulls I do are for technical reasons but also due to the 'donkey work' I carry out in my general day to day, which involves moving around heavy bags rapidly.

Under-recovery for me is a form of self-sabotage, where sometimes I'm too hell bent on lifting iron and intensely seeking out some sort of pacifier other than food just to get me out of chronic flight-or-fight syndrome.

Of course being physically fit has it's benefits but too much just seems to stunt my mentality. I don't want it to pervade every aspect of my life, of course the increased workload comes at a cost.

[Ryan.Johnston]

I agree that under-recovery seems to have been a problem for me. Specifically stress and not sleeping enough. It's possible I may have been over-training once in my life, when I was wrestling and conditioning very hard six days a week, but it's debatable.

Since I have cut back to training heavy 2-3 times a week, I walk into the gym much more motivated and hit PRs a lot more often. I just make sure I sleep 8-9 hours a night and try not to let things bother me. I also take a minimum of 2-4 days off between sessions, three being ideal for me.

[Wodgy]

Great post, I think lyle mcdonald did a similar article on overtraining vs overreaching.

[ThePman220]

I just finished reading Why Zebras Get Ulcers by Robert Sapolsky. I've been familiar with Sapolsky's stress research for quite awhile, as it's helped to shape a lot of my current views on how fatigue and stress intersect with training. The book went into fantastic detail without being inaccessible to the layman, and helped me sketch in some of the missing pieces.

He uses the metaphor of a zebra in Africa running for its life from a lion. All of the neurological and hormonal changes that happen when that zebra gets a fright and sprints away from the danger are positive in that moment. But that's exactly how the stress-response was intended: as a temporary condition that helps you escape danger, and then switches off.

Since humans live in a complex society full of social and cultural stressors, some of us keep our stress-response switched on far more than it was ever intended. When we imagine the bills coming due or the jerk boss at work or even remember a particularly traumatic event in our past, the same arousal-inducing, adrenaline- and cortisol-releasing systems switch on in our brains.

Sapolsky's premise is that physical stress isn't that big a deal. We can handle most anything thrown at us physically. The prevalence of lifestyle diseases -- obesity, type II diabetes, heart disease -- is not the result of any physical cause. These diseases, and a whole slew of less-serious ailments, happen because of incidental damage caused by chronic activation of the stress-response.

Bruce McEwen calls this allostatic load. Various body systems work in overdrive to maintain stability in the body. In short spurts, to cope with a physical threat, this works great. When left on 24-7, our tissues accumulate wear and tear.

From there we're only a short hop to training. Overtraining does exist, but these days I look at it as a malady of endurance athletes. What marathoners and cyclists and swimmers experience happens due to a truly massive allostatic load racked up over months. Even low-intensity work can accumulate over time, and the immune-system signals released by cumulative tissue trauma will activate the stress-response in roughly the same way as described above.

In strength training, I'm of the opinion that the stress-response has more to do with emotional arousal and the anticipation of a challenging lift. We get nervous before a workout that we know will be difficult. We get nervous if we aren't 100% confident of that next attempt. Tissue trauma certainly does play a role, but that's always relative. Tissues adapt quickly, and the immune response is always in proportion to how "trained" those tissues are, versus the workload you throw at them. And by all accounts, the psychological stress amplifies any physical effects.

There's not a fine line between the physical and the psychological even in weight training. Bodybuilding training, or anything with lots of volume stimulus, creates tissue trauma in unconditioned muscles and connective tissues. Bodybuilders also have a habit of prioritizing exhaustion and mental effort, psyching up to grind through maximum efforts.

I think most of the psychological effects are short-term in nature. We lift hard, and the damage-control systems activate, which makes us feel horrible. We're not actually "overtrained", just in a disrupted condition that isn't so pleasant. On the positive side, it appears that as long as your workloads aren't above some absolute limit, you can adapt to a lot in this stage.

Sapolsky cited a study in Norwegian paratroopers showing that the first few weeks of skydiving, these guys were a nervous wreck. A few weeks later, it was no big deal. We can adjust psychologically just as muscles and nerves and tendons adapt themselves to new demands. The short-term feel-bad-ness is largely an illusion, and a moving target at that, rather than any hard threshold.

Real overtraining would take months of this, at stress levels so high that you never really adapt to them.

[Michael Hartman]

Right on Matt, very nice summary...

Overtraining does exist, but these days I look at it as a malady of endurance athletes. What marathoners and cyclists and swimmers experience happens due to a truly massive allostatic load racked up over months. Even low-intensity work can accumulate over time, and the immune-system signals released by cumulative tissue trauma will activate the stress-response in roughly the same way as described above.

In my original post I mentioned that I felt only a small percentage of "athletes" would ever develop overtraining. I think there is an important distinction between even the most hardcore recreational lifter (enthusiast) and an actual competitive strength athlete. Just with strength training alone it might be impossible to develop full blown overtraining, but when you add in competition stress and the other types of psychological trauma that accompany competition, that is when problems may arise. In addition to endurance athletes, for those that train with mixed programs throughout the year, there may be some probability of developing overtraining; i.e. the team sport athletes at the HS level; who might go from different sports in different seasons, or varsity and club teams, with pressure from different coaches and teams to practice/compete and put in the prerequisite offseason training.

[ThePman220]

In addition to endurance athletes, for those that train with mixed programs throughout the year, there may be some probability of developing overtraining; i.e. the team sport athletes at the HS level; who might go from different sports in different seasons, or varsity and club teams, with pressure from different coaches and teams to practice/compete and put in the prerequisite offseason training.

That's a great point that I didn't even consider. Shifting between different kinds of demand would certainly add to it all.

[Stevemac]

Sapolsky's premise is that physical stress isn't that big a deal. We can handle most anything thrown at us physically. The prevalence of lifestyle diseases -- obesity, type II diabetes, heart disease -- is not the result of any physical cause. These diseases, and a whole slew of less-serious ailments, happen because of incidental damage caused by chronic activation of the stress-response. .

I'm not sure I agree with the statement regarding the prevalence of lifestyle diseases being *caused* by chronic activation of the stress-response. Lifestyle diseases are consequence of a multitude of factors; poor lifestyle choices i.e., poor diet, smoking, sedentary lifestyle.... Having a poor lifestyle will probably excacerbate the stress response mechanisms.


From there we're only a short hop to training. Overtraining does exist, but these days I look at it as a malady of endurance athletes. What marathoners and cyclists and swimmers experience happens due to a truly massive allostatic load racked up over months. Even low-intensity work can accumulate over time, and the immune-system signals released by cumulative tissue trauma will activate the stress-response in roughly the same way as described above.

Agree any prolonged periods of high volume training is more likely to cause "overtraining".



In strength training, I'm of the opinion that the stress-response has more to do with emotional arousal and the anticipation of a challenging lift. We get nervous before a workout that we know will be difficult. We get nervous if we aren't 100% confident of that next attempt. Tissue trauma certainly does play a role, but that's always relative. Tissues adapt quickly, and the immune response is always in proportion to how "trained" those tissues are, versus the workload you throw at them. And by all accounts, the psychological stress amplifies any physical effects.

There's not a fine line between the physical and the psychological even in weight training. Bodybuilding training, or anything with lots of volume stimulus, creates tissue trauma in unconditioned muscles and connective tissues. Bodybuilders also have a habit of prioritizing exhaustion and mental effort, psyching up to grind through maximum efforts.

I think most of the psychological effects are short-term in nature. We lift hard, and the damage-control systems activate, which makes us feel horrible. We're not actually "overtrained", just in a disrupted condition that isn't so pleasant. On the positive side, it appears that as long as your workloads aren't above some absolute limit, you can adapt to a lot in this stage.

Sapolsky cited a study in Norwegian paratroopers showing that the first few weeks of skydiving, these guys were a nervous wreck. A few weeks later, it was no big deal. We can adjust psychologically just as muscles and nerves and tendons adapt themselves to new demands. The short-term feel-bad-ness is largely an illusion, and a moving target at that, rather than any hard threshold.

I'm certain different individuals respond differently even after periods of "stress". Example: Jon North needs the psychological stress / emotional arousal prior to heavy lifts whereas Shankle is different.

[richg1984]

Right on Matt, very nice summary...



In my original post I mentioned that I felt only a small percentage of "athletes" would ever develop overtraining. I think there is an important distinction between even the most hardcore recreational lifter (enthusiast) and an actual competitive strength athlete. Just with strength training alone it might be impossible to develop full blown overtraining, but when you add in competition stress and the other types of psychological trauma that accompany competition, that is when problems may arise. In addition to endurance athletes, for those that train with mixed programs throughout the year, there may be some probability of developing overtraining; i.e. the team sport athletes at the HS level; who might go from different sports in different seasons, or varsity and club teams, with pressure from different coaches and teams to practice/compete and put in the prerequisite offseason training.

The notion that competition indirectly produces psychological trauma is quite interesting and I never gave much thought to this prospect until now. I remember the nerves around taper time (approx 2-3 weeks for most swimmers depending on your event program). There were times when the tension was almost palpable -- consequently, those teams "laid an egg." I'm going to chew on this one a bit more. Thanks, Dr. Hartman.

[ThePman220]

I'm not sure I agree with the statement regarding the prevalence of lifestyle diseases being *caused* by chronic activation of the stress-response. Lifestyle diseases are consequence of a multitude of factors; poor lifestyle choices i.e., poor diet, smoking, sedentary lifestyle.... Having a poor lifestyle will probably excacerbate the stress response mechanisms.

That's why you shouldn't rely on brief summaries to capture all the subtleties of a more complex and nuanced argument ;)

I'm certain different individuals respond differently even after periods of "stress". Example: Jon North needs the psychological stress / emotional arousal prior to heavy lifts whereas Shankle is different.

Of course. Neurological correlates of behavior are also correlates of stress reactivity and other physiological functions.