Fixing lacking quad strength?

[Johan]

In this post
http://pendlayforum.com/showpost.php?p=13256&postcount=4

Glenn mentions bad posterior/quad strength as an issue for the poster of the thread. That is an issue I certainly suffer from as well. My best front squat is in the neighborhood of 120kg, back squat 155kg, snatch 75kg and clean 106kg, and my deadlift is 200+ (all time 1rm is 230kg, right now I could probably pull 200 without to much trouble if I tried).

The thing is I haven't trained deadlifts for well over a year (since I switched from "PL-style" training to WL) and I have been squatting 3-5 times a week. Despite that, last week I tried romanian deadlifts for the first time in a year and easily pulled 5 reps on 150kg. I can not even fathom doing that in the front squat. My squatting has not been very organised but I have either been doing linear progression (3 sets of 5 on Monday and Friday, increasing by 2.5kg each time and some light front squats on Wednesday) or simply going to a fairly heavy single. When I do the linear progression I get to around 3 sets of 5 with 140kg at most and then stall. Each rep brutally ugly, slow and breathing for at least 10 seconds between reps, its pretty much 25 heavy singles rather than 3 sets of 5. When I do heavy singles every day I get to 150'ish and then stall.

My weakness in the squat seems to be that I cant keep properly tight and I fold over.

What can I do to fix my ratio of posterior strength to quad strength? Is it ever warranted to throw in more "bodybuilding" type work that focus on quads like closer stance leg presses and 10+ rep squats? I hardly feel my quads at all when squatting unless I go lighter and push up the reps.

[midi]

My weakness in the squat seems to be that I cant keep properly tight and I fold over.

Sounds like thats upper back/Thoracic extension issues if I am reading that correctly....or if you mean you cant go deep because you cant get your knees forward, then it could be ankle mobility issues (always an issue for me)

Is it ever warranted to throw in more "bodybuilding" type work that focus on quads

I reckon as long as you know why your trying something out, then experimentation never hurts. If your analysis is correct, and your quads are weak, then a few weeks of (shock horror) Leg Extensions may well help you...if they dont, you know you need to look elsewhere

The value of any assistance work usually shows itself pretty quickly, so if it's going to make a difference, you will know in a few weeks or so (especially if its a movement type you haven't done in a while)

[johnnya]

Why not switch all squatting to front squatting? If you want to get better at it, do it.

[Johan]

Sounds like thats upper back/Thoracic extension issues if I am reading that correctly....or if you mean you cant go deep because you cant get your knees forward, then it could be ankle mobility issues (always an issue for me)

I do have a bit of an issue with Thoracic extension, mostly flexibility. Working on it perpetually and making slow progress.


I reckon as long as you know why your trying something out, then experimentation never hurts. If your analysis is correct, and your quads are weak, then a few weeks of (shock horror) Leg Extensions may well help you...if they dont, you know you need to look elsewhere

The value of any assistance work usually shows itself pretty quickly, so if it's going to make a difference, you will know in a few weeks or so (especially if its a movement type you haven't done in a while)

I have tried pretty much all methods of training, as far as pure brute all round strength goes I was at my strongest when doing doggcrapp and when doing WSB. Squatting was never much on an emphasis for me then though compared to pulling and pressing. Since my wrists are busted anyway and I can't do the oly lifts then perhaps I should just give it a go again, if it worked before it should work again. I am mostly afraid of loosing what little explositivity I managed to gain during the last year (I am naturally a slow bastard).


Why not switch all squatting to front squatting? If you want to get better at it, do it.

It wouldn't fix the big discrepancy between the back squat and deadlift. Should be easier to bump up back squat first before focusing on the front squat. But my back squatting seems doomed to fail lately :mad:

[HunterHenzler]

It wouldn't fix the big discrepancy between the back squat and deadlift. Should be easier to bump up back squat first before focusing on the front squat. But my back squatting seems doomed to fail lately :mad:


(To me) it seems like FS'ing more would help with your "keeping tight & folding over" problem- because you HAVE to stay upright or else you're losing the weight.
I'm no expert, but if you are forced to stay upright in the FS but don't in the BS, then upping the FS's should theoretically help quad development.


Regardless, I bumped your thread ;)

[NickHorton]

More Front Squats. A lot more.

I don't allow anyone to back squat until they prove to me how good a front squatter they are. If the goal is to improve your oly lifts, then you have to get good at front squatting. There is no choice here.

The olympic style back squat should be performed in a way that is VERY similar to the front squat. The trouble is, when learning how to do this, if you put a lot of energy on back squatting and not much on front squatting AND you are naturally posterior chain dominant (weak quads, relatively), then you will back squat more like a powerlifter without thinking about it (goodmorning style) and encourage the problem rather than fix it.

You need to break the habit of "sitting back" into your squats, and learn to use your quads more (knees way forward over toes, sit straight down). The best way to break that habit is to ONLY front squat until it gets brought up.

It looks like you've put all your energy into back squatting and been half-assing the front squat. That's backwards, given your situation.

My suggestion is to drop back squats completely and front squat like a mad-man till it comes up. Be particularly mindful of technique. Sit straight down. Get those knees forward (but still be on your heels, of course!). Lock the upper back. Chest high. Etc.

Front squatting well is a skill. Learn it. Love it. Live it. :)

[COACHMCCAULEY]

In this post
http://pendlayforum.com/showpost.php?p=13256&postcount=4

Glenn mentions bad posterior/quad strength as an issue for the poster of the thread. That is an issue I certainly suffer from as well. My best front squat is in the neighborhood of 120kg, back squat 155kg, snatch 75kg and clean 106kg, and my deadlift is 200+ (all time 1rm is 230kg, right now I could probably pull 200 without to much trouble if I tried).

The thing is I haven't trained deadlifts for well over a year (since I switched from "PL-style" training to WL) and I have been squatting 3-5 times a week. Despite that, last week I tried romanian deadlifts for the first time in a year and easily pulled 5 reps on 150kg. I can not even fathom doing that in the front squat. My squatting has not been very organised but I have either been doing linear progression (3 sets of 5 on Monday and Friday, increasing by 2.5kg each time and some light front squats on Wednesday) or simply going to a fairly heavy single. When I do the linear progression I get to around 3 sets of 5 with 140kg at most and then stall. Each rep brutally ugly, slow and breathing for at least 10 seconds between reps, its pretty much 25 heavy singles rather than 3 sets of 5. When I do heavy singles every day I get to 150'ish and then stall.

My weakness in the squat seems to be that I cant keep properly tight and I fold over.

What can I do to fix my ratio of posterior strength to quad strength? Is it ever warranted to throw in more "bodybuilding" type work that focus on quads like closer stance leg presses and 10+ rep squats? I hardly feel my quads at all when squatting unless I go lighter and push up the reps.

Johan,

First, I'd like to see you squat. Could you put something on youtube.

Second, imo, don't do RDL's that heavy ever again. You certainly don't need the work and may be doing them wrong(I'd like to see you do these as well). And, any deadlifting you do(once every 2 weeks is enough) should be done out of the clean set position and, for now, work with weights no heavier than about 110% of your clean.

I think you have to do more front squatting, as some have suggested but the back sq. and Front squat ratio you mentioned weren't that out of whack. Maybe some stalls at lighter weight or some stop and go reps. But, only squat twice a week for a while. Too much may just be wearing your back down, which won't solve any anatomical weaknesses you might have.

Hope this helps. See if you can post on youtube.

CoachMc