Squat programs...

[glennpendlay]

I am curious, and want to take a sampling of what you guys are doing on squats. I'd like to hear what those of you who are training by youselves are doing, but am also particularly interested in hearing what those who are part of established teams are doing, and if it is representative of the whole team. Sets, reps, intensity, frequency, the whole story.

[BTBAM]

I'm just playing it by ear at the moment. I recently dropped ~10 lbs of BW and lost some strength in my legs so I am aiming to gain that back. Currently I am following a higher volume scheme for several weeks (5x5 on Monday, 5 rep Front squats Wednesday, up to a 3RM back squat on Friday), tapering to a lower volume period with upped intensity for several weeks (3x3 on Monday, 2RM Front squat Wednesday, 2RM back squat), and eventually going for a new 1RM PR after about 8 weeks.

[azolylifter]

I just recently spent about 5-6 weeks working on my first pull technique, so have neglected squats a bit in that time. I'm now on the Russian Squat Routine for Back Squats, then will go to something where I hit fronts for awhile, but not sure at the moment.

[floyd]

I do some triples, then doubles down to singles mostly. I do that 4 days a week then I do triples all the way up 1 day a week. I mostly do it by feel. Right now 220 is my single any day of the week.

[kderbyshire]

I had a reasonably decent squat coming in, so I'd say what I've been doing is more along the lines of maintenance while my technique catches up rather than a serious strength building program. OTOH, I did add 20# to my front squat the last time I checked...

I'm currently just three weeks out from a meet, and I'm squatting only one day per week, four front squat doubles at 90% of my max. That's a little less volume than what I've been doing for the last month or so, which was 3x5 at 80% and then four doubles at 90%.

Before that, from January until about mid-April, I was doing front squats one day, six sets of three at about 85% of my (former) max, and then back squats another day, also for six heavy triples.

I'm part of a recently organized team, but we're all on individual programming and I'm not sure what the others are doing. I'm also substantially older than most of the team, so probably my total volume is lower.

Katherine

[kon]

the latest program by my coach was the following. My PRs at the time were back squat 150kgs(though this was done 3-4 weeks before this program, by the time I started it I'm pretty sure it would be 155-160) and 130 front squat.

1st day back squat
4,4 x 120
3,3 x 127.5
1,2,1 x 135

2nd day front squat
4,4 x 100
3,3 x 107.5
2,2 x 115

3rd day back squat
2,3 x 120
2,2 x 130

4th day front squat
work up to a maximum/try for a PR

5th day back squat
4,3,4 x 120
3,3 x130


front squat days were also power snatch power clean days
sundays were always off days
also everyday there would be snatching, clean and jerks, pulls(either full or up to the knees with feet on top of a 20kg plate) and some sort of press( or push press or extra jerks). Plus some abs and lower back exercizes at the end.

edit:
There are times during the year that I can't do any clean and jerks or snatches so I mainly focus on squats. Since my strength levels aren't that high I've been doing a simple 4 sets of 4 reps every 2 or 3 days. it has worked great and back in christmas I went from a 110 back squat for 4 sets of 4 to 125 in 3 weeks.

[Red]

Well right now, I'm training 5 times a week (recently added a day up from 4)

I'm on my coach's programming

My training days are Monday through Thursday, then Saturday

We were and still are progressing squats fairly linearly, first we were doing 3x5 for both Back Squat and Front Squat (two back, one front a week) and progressing on that until I stalled. Then we changed to this

Backsquat on Monday

5x3, right now am doing 285lbs, I'm supposed to progress linearly, making 5lb jumps every week until I stall again.

Front Squat on Wednesday

3x5, stayed on this until I reached 250lbs (I stalled today). I'm pretty sure we're going to change this as well, but to what rep and set scheme, I dont know

Saturday
Intensity day, this changes, I sometimes front squat or back squat, but usually me and a couple guys get together after we finish most of our training and we just push each other to make new 1, 2 or 3rm PRs in the Front Squat or Back Squat


My coach says that we are probably going to add another front squat workout during the week, probably an intensity day

I think ultimately he wants me on a fairly even split between getting lots of volume on the squats, and also hitting heavy doubles, singles and triples. But this will probably come when all linear progression for me dries up.

[Tharnett]

Doing Texas Method right now

I have done all kinds of different powerlifting programs (westside, sheiko, my own thing, had a US lifter Brian Carroll write a peaking program etc etc.) and am thoroughly convinced I am not squatting enough.

As discussed in the other thread I am going to be switching to more frequency and experimenting with working up to training maxes.

[NewWorldMan]

I am currently tapering for a meet next Friday, but I've been following Dr. Hartman's contest prep (he and I have tweaked it since I've run it a few times w/his input).
I've just come out of the 'maximal effort' weeks where I was doing lots of doubles/singles around 90% after the lifts. I was able to hit a 2RM Front Squat PR doing this.
Prior, I was lifting 4x/week alternating front/back squat. Worked to max on the FS both days ( one day front squatted first with no back off sets before snatch-clean & jerk; other day was after lifts with a few doubles for back offs).
Back squats were 1x/week max then back off doubles; other was either 5 sets of 3 or ladders (3 cycles of 1,2,3 reps).

As a 40 year old whose lifts are still not efficient yet (169BS/135FS/120clean/110 c&j/85sn) I find that I am able to maintain/slightly increase my strength with the frequent/intense/lower volume squats.

I am asking the lifters at my club what they are doing and will post back (one is a 60 year old who just did 88/111; one gets his programming from Zygmunt and is headed to Jr. Worlds in July; two are S&C coaches with major universities; and Kevin,hopefully, will be getting his squat programming from you soon!)

[Brian DeGennaro]

I've been doing my own thing since I injured myself on spring break. Wrist is getting better slowly, by the way, Glenn. I've been squatting at least 5x in a week since March 20th, singles on back squats then front squats, sometimes just back squats, sometimes with drop sets for reps. Whenever I get the chance I try to squat 2x in a day, and I try to never miss weights since that really messes with my SI joint.

A typical workout would be back squat to a heavy single, possibly take multiple singles at that weight or decrease the loads and perform 5x2, then strip the bar to 140 and start front squatting heavy singles. Right now since my PRs have increased a lot in a short period of time I'm backing off on the singles and doing more reps and volume to strengthen my hips.

My PRs at the time were 190 BS and 162 FS, but the BS I hadn't managed past 185 in over a year. In the beginning I would regularly manage 170 BS/150 FS, and now 200/170 are becoming routine. My PRs have jumped to 211 and 176 respectively, near misses at 220 and 182.

[MichaelMiller]

Monday 5x5

Tues Front squat 5x3

Fri work to multiple heavy singles

Max intensity I would say...thats relative like on Monday my first two sets I made it to 5 but 3,4 I could only make 3 reps and I didnt just let the weight win I fought hard red face, yelling whole 9. But I FORCE those 25 reps out whatever scheme it takes. Diehards can say well thats not really 5x5 its working and I see results my squats have finally gone up for the first time in years.

[CharisLouca]

5x3 with 80%ish on Tuesday, same weight weekly
Heavy singles on Weds, bumping this up towards PB OR a planned topset of rep pb, heavier than Tues
Sat or Fri are sometimes front squats, sometimes some 85ish doubles on Bsq, or deadlifts, or nothing.
what my plan now is Tuesday as above adding 5kg every few weeks (this is warmup and volume day), Weds 7 singles with 90% and build it up to equal pb, 2kg per week, then go for a new pb the week after, and 5x3 80% fsq on Friday, adding 5kg per 2 weeks.

[Azreal83]

I am doing 5x5 2 days a week with a triple and a back off set of 8 on third day dater 2 to 3 sets of 5 leading up to the triple.

My coach has the high level lifters doing doubles it seems, I believe it is his own program iirc.

I may run smolov later in the year as I have run it twice with low bar squats previously with good results.

[drsnatch]

my program is different then what it use to be in the summer but i will write both down:

This summer squat program is-
monday - volume front squat 180x4
190x3
200x2
205/210x1
i don't make every lift but by 200 i am feeling it
tuesday -back squat to max for one single and that's it
wednesday -nothing
thursday -front squat to max single then drop down for doubles at 190k
friday -nothing
saturday -back squat volume 200kx5
210x4
220x3
230x2
240x1 (once again i dont make all of them but i try anyway)
---after this squatting program i lift heavy on monday's wednesday's and friday's
----tuesday and thursday i do power snacth and powercleans into pushpress


This was last summers squat program that was a desperation attempt to get extremely strong, which worked for me.

sunday-front squat/back squat to max then drop down for 5x5
tuesday-deadlifts to max then drop down for 3x3 and drop down again for a set of ten
thursday-front squat/ backsquat to the max and then drop down for 5x4 or 5x3

------this was just a big strength cycle for me, i was so weak (not only physically but mentally) that i was willing to try anything at the time strength wise, so i did more of a power lifting program that included power snatch and power cleans to try and really get my strength up above my lifts and then catch my lifts up to my strength. This worked very well for me however, the timing of it was the key, would i have someone like john north do this? no, but those beggining lifters who maxed out on there athletic ability and need to get strong might want to consider trying this for one summer, just my opinion. Don't get confused with sunday and thursday i did what max aita does, went on feel, if i felt good i went up, if i felt bad i stayed with what weight made me work the hardest. I did not do both squats on the same day either, i did more of a 3 to 1 ratio, 3 back squats to 1 front squat. one thing i remember doing that i almost forgot about which helped me was on the last set of a work set during a volume day, for example 5x3, the very last set you try to rep out as many as you can, so do your first 4 sets till 3 reps then your last one for as many as you can. I dot really know the reason my coach had me do these but they really helped my physically as well as mental strength.

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

I am doing my own thing. I back squat every other day. But I alternate high bar and low bar.

Given that I've got a lot of mileage (41) and years under the iron (29), I listen to my body. The over all goal is 8 to 10 sets of 5. I never deviate from that unless I feel the need to do high rep sets. I go 60x5, 100x5, 145x5 - then I assess how I feel. If 145 felt like 60(I have a lot of those days), I go to 190 for 5, then 230 for 3 to 5 depending upon the mood. If 145 felt like 145, I stay at 145 and do 5 sets of 5 with less than 45 seconds between sets.

If something (a knee, an ankle, a hip - getting old sucks) says hello at any time, I back off and go to 60 and do sets of 10 to complete the 5 sets.

There are days when I do 145 for sets of 20 to change up the monotony. Some day when I'm feeling Randy I might try that set of 20 with 190. Big Might there.

I strength train every other day. Day 1 is both lifts. Day 2 is snatch. Day 3 is clean. I do these lifts, then do an overhead, followed the back squats. I've recently reintroduced OHS to day 2 and Front Squats to day after I do my regular back squats. The sets are minimal and the weight is very light. This is to reintroduce myself to the full lifts after an injury last Spring set me back.

Slowly but surely, I'll resume the full lifts.

All the best,
Arden

[Salaam]

I'm running Smolov for the first time and I'm loving it. Just finished the 1st week of the base mesocycle and looking forward to week 2. I'm responding very well to it from what I can see so far with a consistency and explosiveness in bar speed I've never encountered... just not sure if it stems from actual positive adaptation (might be to early for that?) or from just having more strength and energy available since I'm no longer deadlifting right now.

[SkyIsTheLimit]

I'm doing the smolov squat work out as well tomorrow is my last day of the base mesocycle... and somedays when it doesnt feel too bad I'll do snatch and days off of it I usually do squat clean hoping to hit 300% bw squat next meet =)

[MarkHill]

I have taken advice from Steve Gough (who coaches/advises me via email). Basic summary is to squat off the bat, either first thing in the morning or first in the session. As much as I can I will squat at work at lunchtime and then after I finish I concentrate on the lifts. I will add some squats in again at the end of the session if I have the energy left.

I predominantly front squat on SG's advice but have also made improvements in back squats when I have pushed them in the same way. I think the general structure is pretty much what Max Aita has talked about but would be less squatting volume as I Snatch and Clean and Jerk too.

Some points possibly worth mentioning:
1. Squat session will take between 15-20 minutes max. (I have gone from bar to PB 197kg in 13 minutes before)
2. Singles and Doubles.
3. Generally work up to a max single. Then drop down 15-20kg for a double. (This should be a fairly comfortable double). If it is comfortable I will push another double.
4. See what you have in the tank...e.g a 190 make is better than a 200 miss.
5. Be intuitive. Some days push on..others know when to go easier. One thing Steve has said 'some days that 1kg more may as well be a ton.'
6. Aim for small victories. Those 1kg victories mount up.

Thats a rough guide. I would like to add that a lot of Steve's skill relies on being there coaching sand I havent had that privilege... where he would rely more on intuition. I have a fairly structured weekly approach where I go a lot by feel. Some benefits I feel from squatting this way are:
1. Squatting first can act as effective warm-up.
2. Arguably a chance to drive up the best assistance exercise first.
3. Doing singles/doubles is higher on the intensity and doesnt leave as much fatigue in the legs for the lifts. Maximum hit in the shortest time.

Also advocate resting 20-30 minutes before lifting (I have split the squats throughout day). A lot of things will depend on individual and some of my teammates have had success with doing either back or front squats or some will front first and then do some back squats at end of session.

[ThePman220]

Squat to a (training) max every day except Wednesday, with back-off sets (including partial reps and paused reps) done by feel.

[marcorock]

In the last 3 months, I've been using, with good success, a Ladder approach, squatting 2 times a week - mon. and wed. - while friday is DL day.

I keep 1 Heavy day, usually monday, and a medium day, wednesday.

Heavy: ladder: I have a set work weight (say 80%), so I warm up to that, then I have to reach a certain volume, starting with a single and adding a rep at each set: so, for example, with 15 total reps it would look something like this:
1x1,2,3,4,5 @ 80%

If I get slow/grind the lift out, I start again from singles up to completion of the prescribed total volume; the work weight varies through 3-weeks waves: week 1 80%, w2 85%, w3 90%

Volume follows, with 15-20 reps@80%, 10-15@85% and 6-9@90%, depending on condition/feel.

I run 2 cycles (in the 2nd, I may or may not bump the %s up by 2-3%) and then a 3weeks cycle of 5rm-3rm-1rm to set a new max.

Medium day: I've been following a "bear" scheme, up to "easy" 5rm, then drop to 90% of 5rm for a set of 5, then drop an other 10% for 3 sets of 5. Lately, I've been using the same scheme but applied to triples.

In this way, I've gone through a 2 months streak of rep PRs, up to 130x5 and 142x3, and to a 160 max that was not a full-out effort.

[stevens]

1. Lift when I can. This usually means most days of the week.
2. Avoid fatigue. This allows me to lift most days of the week.
3. Low volume. 2 doubles or triples with a heavy (but not overwhelming) weight. Sometimes 1 or 2 maximum singles if the previous sets are smooth.
4. 2 waves. Front squat first then drop to 135lbs and work up with back squat.
5. Fast lifting. Heavy grinds to a bare minimum. Any weight that cripples my concentration and stresses my nerves too much is the limit for that day. This means I recover quickly and lift more often.
6. Volume workouts limited to an a average of once every two weeks. The scheme here is variable, but generally involves both front and back squats, sometimes in waves, and usually 25-50 total reps @ 80% plus for both lifts combined.
7. Make sure I get a good week or two break after a long spell of lifting and only when I'm worn out and really need to.

[Philip Stablein]

I'm working my way through the LSUS program.
starting PRs 184bs/147fs

Sets by week:
Week 1 -
Day 1 - 120x10, 114x10, 108x10
Day 2 - 108x10x3

Week 2 -
Day 1 - 130x10, 123x10, 114x10
Day 2 - 114x10, 110x10x2

Week 3 -
Day 1 - 135x10, 123x10, 116x10
Day 2 - 116x10, 110x10x2

Week 4 (deload)
Day 1 - 135x5x3
Day 2 - skipped due to knee soreness and deload. *

Week 5
Day 1 - 140x9(+1), 133x7(+3), 126x10
Day 2 (yesterday) - 126x10, 120x10, 114x10

I didn't get 10s my last week. The Week 3 were very close to 10RMs. The plan the whole time was to load for 3 weeks, deload 1 week, and then try to get new 10RMs on Week 5. I got a real rep max test with 140. I had thought I did 137 in Week 3 though, so if I had known I only did 135 I might (maybe) have loaded 137 or 138 for the Week 5 top set.

I am not part of the LSUS team, so this isn't representative of anything except me :p

Moving down to 5s never looked so good!


*I've got a small meniscus tear and some medial plica both of which like to flare occasionally.

[NewWorldMan]

We have two lifters at our gym running the RSR. One is a tall 105; the other in an 85 who is headed to Junior World's to lift on the 4th of July, Mike Nackoul. Mike is just finishing up this run and had been coupling RDLs w/the RSR (heavy RDL on the 'recovery' squat day - but he dropped them I believe as they were interfering w/the squatting. He just hit a 182.5 clean at college and I watched him double a 170 clean last week).

[ThePman220]

1. Lift when I can. This usually means most days of the week.
2. Avoid fatigue. This allows me to lift most days of the week.
3. Low volume. 2 doubles or triples with a heavy (but not overwhelming) weight. Sometimes 1 or 2 maximum singles if the previous sets are smooth.
4. 2 waves. Front squat first then drop to 135lbs and work up with back squat.
5. Fast lifting. Heavy grinds to a bare minimum. Any weight that cripples my concentration and stresses my nerves too much is the limit for that day. This means I recover quickly and lift more often.
6. Volume workouts limited to an a average of once every two weeks. The scheme here is variable, but generally involves both front and back squats, sometimes in waves, and usually 25-50 total reps @ 80% plus for both lifts combined.
7. Make sure I get a good week or two break after a long spell of lifting and only when I'm worn out and really need to.

I really like this.

[Dave Rogerson]

Simple really:

squat 6 x week at the end of my session: 4 squat, 2 front squat
Training max each day, with as little mental stress as possible
One day of volume for squats, before a rest day, work up to max, then 5 x 5 for 3 - 4 weeks, then drop to 3 x 3 for a few weeks.

This is to get some strength back after 4 weeks of no squatting or cleaning due to my glass back, lol.

Prior to my last powerlifting comp and p.b (220kg @ 82.5kg) I did this:

Squats, high bar, 5 - 6 days per week to max as a warm up, no belt, every session regardless of what I was doing

Squats Low bar, 2 - 3 x week, after the high bar, volume for 3 - 4 weeks, working off 5's then 3's (stuff like 5 x5, 5 x 3, etc) then intense + moderate volume for 2 weeks as a form of over-reaching: mainly doubles and triples, to max. Then 2 weeks of singles / doubles with low volume coming into my comp / taper.

This last cycle did great things for my squat, but interestingly did more for my high bar squat than low bar. High bar p.b went from 155kg to 195kg without belt during that phase.

Training like this really de-sensitized me to lifting heavy and often and did amazing things for my work capacity.

[glennpendlay]

Simple really:

squat 6 x week at the end of my session: 4 squat, 2 front squat
Training max each day, with as little mental stress as possible
One day of volume for squats, before a rest day, work up to max, then 5 x 5 for 3 - 4 weeks, then drop to 3 x 3 for a few weeks.

This is to get some strength back after 4 weeks of no squatting or cleaning due to my glass back, lol.

Prior to my last powerlifting comp and p.b (220kg @ 82.5kg) I did this:

Squats, high bar, 5 - 6 days per week to max as a warm up, no belt, every session regardless of what I was doing

Squats Low bar, 2 - 3 x week, after the high bar, volume for 3 - 4 weeks, working off 5's then 3's (stuff like 5 x5, 5 x 3, etc) then intense + moderate volume for 2 weeks as a form of over-reaching: mainly doubles and triples, to max. Then 2 weeks of singles / doubles with low volume coming into my comp / taper.

This last cycle did great things for my squat, but interestingly did more for my high bar squat than low bar. High bar p.b went from 155kg to 195kg without belt during that phase.

Training like this really de-sensitized me to lifting heavy and often and did amazing things for my work capacity.

Thats pretty impressive, a unique approach also. I will give this some thought...

[Dave Rogerson]

Thats pretty impressive, a unique approach also. I will give this some thought...

It was a really interesting and worthwhile experiment, and I think key, was to be pretty flexible with the loading and autoregulate as needed.

One thing I found was that the high bar squats were a great indicator of where I was at on that particular day, and allowed me to adjust as required. Very quickly I found that I would have training minimums, which helped me adjust what I was doing. If I could go in and squat 160 - 170kg without much mental effort and ramp up quite quickly, then I knew it would be a good session. If I found that I needed smaller jumps to get to 160 and it felt kinda tough, well that would typically be a rough day.

[contrarian]

- started training high frequency kind of by accident, tore my pec and strained bicep, and couldnt low bar squat (i used to just low bar box squat, ala westside twice a week, could usually max in mid - high 200's) so just high bar squatted, which sucked big time initially. then on my off days started doing some light work which ended up getting heavier and heavier. At the time felt like what i was doing was stupid and i would eventually have to stop. high bar squats was all i could do though, deadlifts hurt, most upperbody stuff hurt, so to feed my OCD i just squatted whenever i went to the gym. Then the whole broz/mendes thing blew up about this time last year and i didnt feel so stupid anymore!! haha just felt like a natural progression for me.


- squat to a single max every day mon - friday
- back off 20 - 30kg and do doubles
- between zero and 5 doubles, usually 2/3
- takes about 5 sets to get to my max, 25-30min or so
- i get through the doubles a lot quicker though
- belt only on max
- on fridays after the max ill drop it back and try to break some sort of PR, might be 3's 4's 5's 6's, 17's, consecutive sets, limited rest, wearing a funny hat, whatever, just something

- started this when i was 34, been training in some capacity since 14. seriously since mid twenties.
- i tend to be a bit conservative, when i see videos of my squats, im shocked how easy they look compared to how they feel. And that ease that i see then kind of resets my limits and thats when i tend to push it up a little
- i thrive on confidence, i know ill get every max i go for, only missed one squat in last year - and that wasnt a max attempt.
- ill add 500g/1kg whenever i can, usually on all the warmups as well - to keep everything pushing upwards
- over the course of a week max will be within 1-2kg every day, heaviest always seems to be wed/thursday for some reason i cant work out.
- only gone backwards maybe 3 times in last 12 months
- started at 150 for a single (keep in mind had done other kinds of squats far heavier, just hadnt high bar consistently in a long time) - now hit 240 every day


- i also deadlift everyday straight after squats
- just work up to a single, maybe drop down and do a double once a week afterwards
- a let my grip be the limiting factor, i know when it will give in, and stop just before there.
- no straps or alternate grip, i cant hook grip, juts double overhand.
- ill match my squat with the deadlift every day at least, maybe beat it by 5kg's depending how i feel
- my deads arent fast, i personally havent found any downside to pulling heavy everyday - yet

edit oh and im about 6ft, weight over the past 18months has been between 104 and currently around 110

[Ryan.Johnston]

I haven't squatted a lot for like 4-6 months. When I was, I was doing a 5x5 or 5x3 for back and front squats usually thrice a week. I feel like that was too much considering I wasn't recovering properly and my squat was stalling out a lot.

I am seeing about squatting once a week or so, hopefully my knee doesn't protest too much. Probably working up to a few triples for a total of five or six sets.

[vikingstrong]

Really interesting programs people use. the same thing doesn't work for eveyone thats for sure. But it does seem the biggest squatters are squatting 5-7 days a week to a max single. Wish i could do that but don't have the time to every day. Right now i'm doing my own throw together program of 3 days a week with back and front squats each session. 1 day i work with 3's, the next day 2's and on saturdays i do singles. Each session has lots of volume with minimum 10 working sets over 80%. i have tried big long peaking programs and got good results but everything has to be perfect. Some days are better than others and one or 2 bad days can just ruin a cycle for me. so now i just go by feel while still hitting as much work as i can.

[NickHorton]

While I change what my team does a bit every 3 or 4 week cycle, the basics are this:


Monday/Wednesday/Friday (and Sundays during "loading" weeks): back squat to max (after the oly lifts), plus back-off sets of doubles and triples, starting at 90% of what you made and trying to up the weight if you can.

Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday: Front squat to max


Mornings (for those who can make it in): Front squat to max


the front squats are nearly always done BEFORE we Olympic lift, the back squats AFTER we olympic lift.


Everyone's squats have skyrocketed since we started doing it this way. Especially the front squats, which I've noticed has had a direct positive impact on cleans.

[marcorock]

Nick,

do you think you would have had a similar - albeit maybe reduced - outcome if only back squatting to max + flush sets 3 times a week? Or you think that going at it everyday is key?

[CharisLouca]

What are people's thoughts on consecutive days of squatting and injury prevention or cause?
Ever since I read somewhere on the internets that consecutive days of squatting are less likely to cause injury when training heavy rather than one on, one off, one on, going to heavy singles. I have never had any injuries from squatting (touch wood) and always feel great with consecutive days of squatting.

[stevens]

What are people's thoughts on consecutive days of squatting and injury prevention or cause?


I was injured 4 times in 6 months. The first three times were warnings but the last time put me out for about 5 weeks.

After this i swore i would never let myself get so tired ever again. It wasn't so bad for the first few months but after that, every time i went to squat, even the warm ups were extremely uncomfortable.

At one point I took a whole week off, came back, and my legs felt exactly the same. It was as though I hadn't rested at all. There's fatigue and then there's a whole other level of fatigue. Never again.

On reflection the progress was great but my body couldn't handle the extra demand that came with it, especially as I forced myself to do significant volume almost every day.

Let's face it, if tiredness didn't exist we would all do as much or as little as we wanted, but it does and we all have to work out our limitations and proceed sensibly.

[NickHorton]

Nick,

do you think you would have had a similar - albeit maybe reduced - outcome if only back squatting to max + flush sets 3 times a week? Or you think that going at it everyday is key?


I think the key was squatting to a max daily. The "flushing" sets are there to either increase fatigue on purpose (to get the 2-factor hormonal response I'm looking for) or we drop them out to decrease fatigue.

But, the basics are the daily maxes.

Now ... I still think you can go a long way by doing it just like you suggested. And the older you are, the more likely that will be fine - I have many masters lifters doing exactly that. But, if you don't squat every day, you will need more "flushing" sets to make up for it (how many is an individual thing).

The Texas method, and others like it, work great in part because of the total weekly volume of 30+ working reps per week (25 on monday, 5+ on Friday). You only really do "work" on Monday and Friday, with a half-ass session on wednesday. With this method, the goal is to do the opposite. Do very very little in any one session. But, do it as often as humanly possible.

The function isn't linear, but as you drop off days of squatting, you need to increase reps on the days you do. And conversely, the more often you squat, the less you do in any one session.

I suggest that if you want to squat daily as an experiment, go to a heavy single (max = when the weight gets slow, not when you fail) only, and don't do any added volume for a while till you get comfortable with that. Do this after you've already done your Oly work so that you are warm. And don't take too long at it. The idea is to avoid fatigue as much as possible, not to seek it out. Don't gear up for a max or anything. Just "half-ass" the experience. Squat because that's what you do every day. No big deal.

[NickHorton]

What are people's thoughts on consecutive days of squatting and injury prevention or cause?
Ever since I read somewhere on the internets that consecutive days of squatting are less likely to cause injury when training heavy rather than one on, one off, one on, going to heavy singles. I have never had any injuries from squatting (touch wood) and always feel great with consecutive days of squatting.

I think this has a lot to do with what you are doing to keep yourself healthy otherwise. As the saying goes, for every decade of age, we need that many days a week of mobility work.

If you are doing all the mobility, flexibility, and recovery stuff you should be, then squatting daily (or at least often) should not be a problem (assuming you are doing it within "reason"). But, if you squat to a max daily, with added volume, refuse to stretch or roll-out daily, have a horrible diet, and never sleep ... you WILL get injured. However, blaming that on the squatting makes little sense.

I think if you have the motivation to squat every day, you should also have the motivation to do all the other work involved that is required for you to squat every day. A 19 year old kid can get away with not doing this stuff ... but the rest of us can't. If I don't stretch and foam roll daily ... I'm toast!! If I do, no problems at all. It's that important.

[BSmith]

I think I need to squat more frequently, which I am hoping to start doing soon.

the other day did beltless squats, doubles to ~15kg off belted max, single at ~10kg off belted max, then -10, -14 back off doubles (subtracted from the single).

was able to complete the whole workout in about 15-20mins or so, including warmup. I'd like to do this 3-6 times a week I think, so long as life doesn't get in the way.

[80sMediumSized]

Alright this might be a silly question:

Which would cause more systematic fatigue? Working up to squat a 1rm in 4-6 sets or doing 3 sets of 4 at 80% after doing 3-4 warmup sets? What's going to affect the trainee more the next day?

[contrarian]

Alright this might be a silly question:

Which would cause more systematic fatigue? Working up to squat a 1rm in 4-6 sets or doing 3 sets of 4 at 80% after doing 3-4 warmup sets? What's going to affect the trainee more the next day?

i used to do the same workout, but with for more warmups... 20kg jumps from 60 to around 210... so 9 - 10 sets, and i had a far harder time recovering than i do now taking 50kg jumps and only doing 4 or 5 sets. To clarify though i was doing this earlier on in the piece before i was as adjusted to the frequency as i am now

[Brian DeGennaro]

The one with more total volume and reps is going to affect you more.

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

While I change what my team does a bit every 3 or 4 week cycle, the basics are this:


Monday/Wednesday/Friday (and Sundays during "loading" weeks): back squat to max (after the oly lifts), plus back-off sets of doubles and triples, starting at 90% of what you made and trying to up the weight if you can.

Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday: Front squat to max


Mornings (for those who can make it in): Front squat to max


the front squats are nearly always done BEFORE we Olympic lift, the back squats AFTER we olympic lift.


Everyone's squats have skyrocketed since we started doing it this way. Especially the front squats, which I've noticed has had a direct positive impact on cleans.


I would love to try this once my Timbersports/Lumberjack Season is over. My only concern would be "can my 41 year old body handle this?"

All previous hip/knee injuries are healed up. Kinda curious as I know the normal protocol is to increase GPP in the 40s and lessen the strength movements.

Thoughts anyone? I may have to meter it and instead of maxing, go to set point, then back off. I don't know. But I'm curious as to Nick's thoughts on this given his skill with working with others.

All the best,
Arden

[ThePman220]

What are people's thoughts on consecutive days of squatting and injury prevention or cause?
Ever since I read somewhere on the internets that consecutive days of squatting are less likely to cause injury when training heavy rather than one on, one off, one on, going to heavy singles. I have never had any injuries from squatting (touch wood) and always feel great with consecutive days of squatting.

For whatever this is worth:

At the end of 2008, I popped an adductor muscle in my inner thigh at the bottom of a squat. Took over six months before I could do anything remotely heavy again.

In preparation for a meet at the end of 2009, I blew out the VM in my other leg.

Both of these injuries happened while squatting once or twice a week.

In comparison, my time spent daily squatting has never once felt like anything was going to tear on me. Things hurt, things ache, but they never send out the warnings like I'm approaching a structural limit.

In fact, about two months ago before starting my latest round of daily squatting, that old adductor injury started to ache on me again while only squatting once a week. I turn up the frequency and suddenly that pain vanishes.

I can say the same thing about my bad shoulders (partial rotator tears in both in past times) and benching. The more I do it, the better the joints feel.

Take my input with the required grain of salt, but I feel better and less injury-prone while training conservatively and often than I do training "intense" and infrequent.

[NickHorton]

I would love to try this once my Timbersports/Lumberjack Season is over. My only concern would be "can my 41 year old body handle this?"

All previous hip/knee injuries are healed up. Kinda curious as I know the normal protocol is to increase GPP in the 40s and lessen the strength movements.

Thoughts anyone? I may have to meter it and instead of maxing, go to set point, then back off. I don't know. But I'm curious as to Nick's thoughts on this given his skill with working with others.

All the best,
Arden


Arden,

I think that the key is mindset. Those of us who are bit Bulgarian-ish, and pro high-frequency, often are guilty of overusing the word "Max". I'm certainly guilty of it.

Most people hear the word "Max" and instantly imagine a Powerlifter pulling a max deadlift in competition, nose bleeding, back rounded, spine busting in half.

What we REALLY mean when we say max is "heavy". It should be hard, but not gut-busting hard.

Yes, sometimes, when you are in the zone and the fire is hot, you'll go for it. But, most of the time, you just squat 'cause ... what the hell, why not?

I'm not joking when I say that I go out of my way to cultivate a culture of laziness in my gym. We train a lot, every day, sometimes twice a day, squatting all the dang time. And with the exception of Brandon, most of us are "past our primes".

This kind of frequency wouldn't be possible if we were always going out of our way to kill ourselves. Instead, we attempt something hard, if it goes well, we add weight. If it doesn't, we stop.


You are the same age as John Broz. He has said (and I agree - paraphrase) that you are more likely to get injured squatting twice a week than everyday. What Pman said, above, is an example of that.

The reason is multi-fold. But, two of them are these:

1. If you squat every day, then you are too tired most of the time to honestly hit a "max". Broz says your muscles can't contract hard enough with that amount of fatigue and that inability saves you. That may or may not be the reason, but the fact is that you just can't get near your honest-to-God maxes when you squat daily.

So, even when you get stronger and you are lifting bigger weights than your previous maxes, you are actually even stronger still ... but you would need to taper to find out by how much.

2. You mellow out. That is, You stop attacking each workout with the mindset of a Powerlifter in competition. It becomes a routine activity. Sure, you work hard, you try, but you don't go till your nose bleeds!

The goal is great technical movements. Have the mindset of someone at a driving range, not a bodybuilder in the gym trying to "blast his guns".

Every workout is a practice session where you do your best to lift weights with great form. If you make a lift with good form, add weight. If you don't, either stay low or walk out the door.

The older a lifter gets, the stricter I am about technique at the high end weights. Youngin's can fail more often, get "grindy" more often, and make progress. The rest of us should avoid that stuff most of the time.

Your motto should be, "When in doubt, F--- it!"

[ThePman220]

That's a great summary. Let it happen, don't push it out.

[glennpendlay]

yep, Nick, I liked that.

[tntballe]

I started doing daily max as a rehab from Reactive arthritis, and it made my squat go to my old max and beyond very quickly, and during my daily squats i never had any colds or felt bad in any way other than tired, so now I say daily squats is the cure for everything =)

Ont
Daily backsquat to max, then 2-5 drop off sets. Later changed it to every other day backsquats and frontsquats to a daily 2RM and with 2-4 back off sets. I felt that it was better for the form/technique doing only 2rm.

[MichaelMiller]

I think another thing that stalls squats in any squat program is people being afraid to "fail" or miss the squat. When you pull a max or heavy dead whats the worst that can happen if you miss, you drop the bar anywhere between your mid thigh or below the knee loud noise but no biggie. However if you say load up 400# on the bar and your previous best was 385 you could get pinned you could bail out wrong whatever. People seem to panic in the squat when they cant make the lift, if you can get your mind around not spazzing and calmy lowering yourself into the bottom of a missed squat and just dump it behind you it becomes easier to want to go bigger on the weights.

[CharisLouca]

I am definitely guilty of not being overly confident attacking new max weights.
I like to plan things very gradually and hit a PB I am pretty much sure of nailing.
Is this a bad thing? :D

[midi]

"The older a lifter gets, the stricter I am about technique at the high end weights. Youngin's can fail more often, get "grindy" more often, and make progress. The rest of us should avoid that stuff most of the time...."

Nick..I think this is spot on. I think theres more value in a lot of good quality work at a heavy but comfortable intensity, than there is 'grinding' all the time.....lots of quality work, thats where its at

These days I have settled on a sort of loose periodization...every month I make sure I do a hard week (where I am pushing the volume every day), I do an easy week (where I feel like I didn't do enough), and my other weeks are moderate intensity with a lot of quality practice, but never pushing too hard

As long as the weight is somewhere >70%, and it's quality work, then I'm happy

I think quite often people don't see this game as a lifelong process....it's a tortoise and hare thing....if people can learn to chill out, and resign themselves to the fact that they are going to be doing this for some years yet they end up better off....I think so anyway...you have to surrender yourself to it

[NewWorldMan]

Arden,

What we REALLY mean when we say max is "heavy". It should be hard, but not gut-busting hard.



What kind of range does this 'heavy' fall into: 90% and up or does you 'daily max' every drop below this?

[NickHorton]

What kind of range does this 'heavy' fall into: 90% and up or does you 'daily max' every drop below this?

Well ... I'm not honestly sure what my lifters "real" maxes are on squats. When we taper down, our focus is on the Oly lifts, so I have them take it easier on squats.

I think the better way to look at is that you have the weights that "appear" to be your maxes that you can hit fairly often (1 to 3 times a week). We can call that a "working max". And then a lower bound that you try to hit every day. The distance between these two will be different for everyone, but 90% is about right.

For example, let's say 140 is your working max, it's a weight you can hit about 1 to 3 times a week. You may want to see if you can hit 125 or even 130 every day (90%+ of that). You won't always. Some days you'll barely get 120, and rarely, you'll be so tired you won't make 110. But, over time, trying to hit that bottom end threshold will bring the two closer.

[NewWorldMan]

Thanks for the reply Nick!

[Tony T]

Well first off let me say that I am not a weightlifter/powerlifter but a fighter. I do have a tremendous respect for both sports, and anybody and everybody who does both wether its professional, amature, or recreational.

I've run several different programs over the years gaining different results. I ran
Texas Method, 5x5, took a crack at 5x5 advanced, 5-3-1, and now Im running the Juggernaugt Method.

Each program gave me good results in there own way, but I also switched the way I sqaut(d) several times as well. From low bar squats, to touch-and-go box squats, to full box squats, olympic style squating etc.

I think I seen the most strength results with the Texas Method, and the 5x5. The only draw back to these was the volume affected my preformance during my practices (kick boxing, wrestling, mma), and It was harder to loose weight wich was also a product of my dieting for lifting.

5-3-1, tho going lighter then TM or 5x5 for the most part with less volume on the "core" lifts, left me with more gas in the tank, and I felt better restricting the carbs/calories with this style of programming as well. Im finishing the last week of the 5's phase of the Jug Method, and I actually feel a bit weaker in my core lifts . I think its cause its more of an advanced style of programming and I still have to enter in to the 3's phase next wave. I doubt I'll be running the Jugg Method again , and will probolly go back to either the 5-3-1, a modified version of the Texas Method , or similar programming that will allow me to atleast maintain strength levels while dieting to a lower bodyfat percentage, and alot me more energy to continue to train for my sport.

[jaymax]

Thanks for all the knowlege/ideas guys...and to glenn for starting the thread.

For the last two months I've done a scheme poliquin advocates: 10x5 @10RM, 10x4 @8RM and 10x3 at 5-6RM alternating between back squats and front squats and hitting legs every 5 days. Before that I was doing 5x5 advanced which I'm considering going back to again.

I've had my best results all around with that 10x5/4/3 scheme and 5x5. If only I had not spun my wheels with magazines and joe weider's books I might have been an accomplished lifter by now. Live and learn ;)

[Tom B]

I just started squatting 3 days a week again. Monday I do 5x5 in back squat as heavy as I feel I can get, Wednesday I do lighter front squat + jerk working up to maybe 3 sets of 2 with 70-75%, and Friday I front squat as heavy as I can get for 3x3. Thinking about upping this to 5x3 since I rest on Saturday and Sunday.

I have found that for me to get stronger I have to get bigger, this seems to be working so far.

[80sMediumSized]

For whatever this is worth:

At the end of 2008, I popped an adductor muscle in my inner thigh at the bottom of a squat. Took over six months before I could do anything remotely heavy again.

In preparation for a meet at the end of 2009, I blew out the VM in my other leg.

Both of these injuries happened while squatting once or twice a week.

In comparison, my time spent daily squatting has never once felt like anything was going to tear on me. Things hurt, things ache, but they never send out the warnings like I'm approaching a structural limit.

In fact, about two months ago before starting my latest round of daily squatting, that old adductor injury started to ache on me again while only squatting once a week. I turn up the frequency and suddenly that pain vanishes.

I can say the same thing about my bad shoulders (partial rotator tears in both in past times) and benching. The more I do it, the better the joints feel.

Take my input with the required grain of salt, but I feel better and less injury-prone while training conservatively and often than I do training "intense" and infrequent.

JBroz mentions that daily squatting also sort of "balances" the levels of fatigue in joints/tendons/muscles. Tendons recover more quickly than joints, and muscles recover more quickly than either. If you're squatting only weekly, your muscles are mostly recovered, but your joints/tendons aren't as strong. The muscles can contract hard enough to jeoprodize the relatively weaker joints/tendons. If you squat more frequently, your muscles are too fatigued to contract harder than your joints/tendons can physically tolerate in their fatigued state. And you get better at it from a CNS/efficiency/form standpoint and are less likely to have injury-inducing technique breakdowns just because the movement is so practiced and rehearsed at high intensities.

[glennpendlay]

One thing that we ahve been experimenting with at CalStrength is the following... Multiple sets of 5 (1 set to 5 sets) on Saturday, cause we take Sunday off. And It's hard to lift well the day after multiple heavy sets of 5. Then, during the week, multiple workouts up to maximum with little, very little, volume.

It is currently working for us, meaning we have multiple guys setting new PR's every week. Anyone else ever try anything like this?

[CharisLouca]

If time permitted I'd imagine that is something of an ideal situation for a lot of folk.
The in week workouts would be up to a 1-3RM of the day.

[stevens]

One thing that we ahve been experimenting with at CalStrength is the following... Multiple sets of 5 (1 set to 5 sets) on Saturday, cause we take Sunday off. And It's hard to lift well the day after multiple heavy sets of 5. Then, during the week, multiple workouts up to maximum with little, very little, volume.

It is currently working for us, meaning we have multiple guys setting new PR's every week. Anyone else ever try anything like this?

I try to incorporate some volume work on top of multiple max workouts, only less frequently (once every 10-14 days). This fulfills the 'bodybuilding' component of lifting, and I consider it a necessary evil since it can be counterproductive, as you say, in terms of the fatigue it induces, but good for larger, stronger muscles, which are obviously pretty useful. I used to do a 10x5 twice a week (nothing else) for bodybuilding only and made constant albeit slow progress strength wise.

Economically it's not good when the food bill skyrockets, not to mention made-to-fit trousers, so if you're trying to avoid gaining any more size and feeling like death-warmed-up the rest of the time, then volume work may not be the best thing.

OTOH, if lifting is your main priority then it must be worth it to make those sacrifices.

[contrarian]

One thing that we ahve been experimenting with at CalStrength is the following... Multiple sets of 5 (1 set to 5 sets) on Saturday, cause we take Sunday off. And It's hard to lift well the day after multiple heavy sets of 5. Then, during the week, multiple workouts up to maximum with little, very little, volume.

It is currently working for us, meaning we have multiple guys setting new PR's every week. Anyone else ever try anything like this?


max every day and a few doubles with -20/30kg
i have weekends off and about 6 - 7 weeks ago i started go for rep maxes after the max squat on a friday, 3's, 4's, 5's, or 6's for multiple sets, trying to hit 20 - 25 reps
at the time i added it i was maxing about 230 ish every day... this week ive hit 250 every day

[NewWorldMan]

Coach Glenn,

Are you rotating front/back squats during the week and only back squats on Saturday?

[mwhities]

Day One:
20 Rep Squats (take 10 rep max and do it for 20)
Sumo deadlift 3x15 at 60% 1rm
Box Jumps 24" 3x15
Barbell Lunges 9 steps each leg for 3 sets

Day Two:
Barbell Snatch-4x15
Dumbbell Standing Press rep scheme 10/7/5/3/2/2/2 (ascending weight)
Dumbbell Row Max weight for max reps for 3 sets (get at least 15 reps out)
Kettle Bell Swings 3x25

Day Three:
20 Rep Squat
20 yard sprint 12 times with 45 second rest in between
Weighted Step Ups 24 each leg 1 set
Dumbbell Bench Press 3x12
Resistance Band Pull Through 20 reps 2 sets

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

Arden,

I think that the key is mindset. Those of us who are bit Bulgarian-ish, and pro high-frequency, often are guilty of overusing the word "Max". I'm certainly guilty of it.

Most people hear the word "Max" and instantly imagine a Powerlifter pulling a max deadlift in competition, nose bleeding, back rounded, spine busting in half.

What we REALLY mean when we say max is "heavy". It should be hard, but not gut-busting hard.

Yes, sometimes, when you are in the zone and the fire is hot, you'll go for it. But, most of the time, you just squat 'cause ... what the hell, why not?

I'm not joking when I say that I go out of my way to cultivate a culture of laziness in my gym. We train a lot, every day, sometimes twice a day, squatting all the dang time. And with the exception of Brandon, most of us are "past our primes".

This kind of frequency wouldn't be possible if we were always going out of our way to kill ourselves. Instead, we attempt something hard, if it goes well, we add weight. If it doesn't, we stop.


You are the same age as John Broz. He has said (and I agree - paraphrase) that you are more likely to get injured squatting twice a week than everyday. What Pman said, above, is an example of that.

The reason is multi-fold. But, two of them are these:

1. If you squat every day, then you are too tired most of the time to honestly hit a "max". Broz says your muscles can't contract hard enough with that amount of fatigue and that inability saves you. That may or may not be the reason, but the fact is that you just can't get near your honest-to-God maxes when you squat daily.

So, even when you get stronger and you are lifting bigger weights than your previous maxes, you are actually even stronger still ... but you would need to taper to find out by how much.

2. You mellow out. That is, You stop attacking each workout with the mindset of a Powerlifter in competition. It becomes a routine activity. Sure, you work hard, you try, but you don't go till your nose bleeds!

The goal is great technical movements. Have the mindset of someone at a driving range, not a bodybuilder in the gym trying to "blast his guns".

Every workout is a practice session where you do your best to lift weights with great form. If you make a lift with good form, add weight. If you don't, either stay low or walk out the door.

The older a lifter gets, the stricter I am about technique at the high end weights. Youngin's can fail more often, get "grindy" more often, and make progress. The rest of us should avoid that stuff most of the time.

Your motto should be, "When in doubt, F--- it!"

Nick,
Thank you for this. I have been away with axe and law book in hand and have had very little net time. Sincerely appreciated that you set this down.

I'm going to give it a a whirl and completely listen to my body. And on my event training days, I'll squat after I chop and saw.

Thanks again.

All the best,
Arden

[johnnya]

Current Squat program-
Light, frequent. Test ankle, broken last year. Don't push the depth. Only ever squat in oly shoes.
Deadlift regularly for first time ever in training.
Wonder if I will ever be able to hit a deep heavy squat clean again.

Nick,
Thank you for this. I have been away with axe and law book in hand...

Not a man to mess with!

[Brian DeGennaro]

One thing that we ahve been experimenting with at CalStrength is the following... Multiple sets of 5 (1 set to 5 sets) on Saturday, cause we take Sunday off. And It's hard to lift well the day after multiple heavy sets of 5. Then, during the week, multiple workouts up to maximum with little, very little, volume.

It is currently working for us, meaning we have multiple guys setting new PR's every week. Anyone else ever try anything like this?

Glenn, I've done this the past few weeks with 1 day of higher volume squatting and have noticed my joints feel significantly less achy as a result.

[NewWorldMan]

Originally Posted by Arden Cogar
Nick,
Thank you for this. I have been away with axe and law book in hand...



Not a man to mess with!

I think there's an old Rush song that says:

and the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, axe, and law ;)

[johnnya]

I think there's an old Rush song that says:

and the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, axe, and law ;)

Very nice there.

[glennpendlay]

Coach Glenn,

Are you rotating front/back squats during the week and only back squats on Saturday?

yes, that describes it quite nicely... we alternate during the week, going to max with very little volume, then on Saturday we do multiple sets of 5.

[NickHorton]

yes, that describes it quite nicely... we alternate during the week, going to max with very little volume, then on Saturday we do multiple sets of 5.

We're going to be trying this this summer. However, everytime the number 5 comes out of my mouth, my lifters start crying. So, I may need to invest in tissue paper! :)

[leighton]

Anyone tried singles on the minute for 20 minutes with squats?
I tried this last summer and was able to get more volume in at higher intensity than doing multiple sets of 5.
I think its because I get bored with the long rest periods you need between heavy fives.

[Gareth Rees]

Probably not what you guys are all looking for as most are doing something innovative and fresh, but I'm running TM right now for the first time. Just started week 4 and so far it's great, though right now there is some experimentation and trial and error going on.
I'm getting loads of ideas and inspiration from all posters training schedules, and thank you so much Glenn for starting this thread.
The first experiment I'll probably try once finished with TM is daily 'maxing' (as long as work will allow). I wouldn't believe that you necessarily have to be an 'advanced' athlete to run it, as I'm not especially strong (maybe approx 165 1RM back squat at 100kg bw)?

Anyone tried singles on the minute for 20 minutes with squats?
I tried this last summer and was able to get more volume in at higher intensity than doing multiple sets of 5.
I think its because I get bored with the long rest periods you need between heavy fives.

Leighton,
I like this idea a lot. I've never thought of it, but likely will experiment with it one day (maybe even during the volume or intensity day of TM). I hope somebody else has tried it and can shine some light.

[RoySharp]

We're going to be trying this this summer. However, everytime the number 5 comes out of my mouth, my lifters start crying. So, I may need to invest in tissue paper! :)

Truth.

Every time someone exceeds 3 reps, they're accused of doing crossfit :D

[azolylifter]

Truth.

Every time someone exceeds 3 reps, they're accused of doing crossfit :D

I know the feeling!!! :D I'm doing the Russian Squat Routine, and the worst workouts are the 5's and 6's - I just feel like I can't breathe after I rack the bar. The bar starts to dig into my traps and back causing pain and sometimes bruising!! I've got the heavy 5 X 5 tomorrow with 123, so we'll see how it goes!!

[Ryan.Johnston]

I'd like to add what I'm doing now for the past few weeks with some success. I call it success because my knees aren't killing me. I am back squatting and front squatting once a week respectively. I am doing maybe 4-5 sets, using doubles and triples. I find the reduced volume leaves me feeling far less tired and no knee issues are had.

[NickHorton]

Truth.

Every time someone exceeds 3 reps, they're accused of doing crossfit :D

LOL. That's our defensive way of avoiding cardio at all cost!

[NickHorton]

I'd like to add what I'm doing now for the past few weeks with some success. I call it success because my knees aren't killing me. I am back squatting and front squatting once a week respectively. I am doing maybe 4-5 sets, using doubles and triples. I find the reduced volume leaves me feeling far less tired and no knee issues are had.

That's a great system, actually. I know I like to hype the daily thing, because it works so well for many lifters. But, I regularly use 2 day a week programs with lifters who either can't get in the gym because of work/school very often, or who have nagging injuries that just can't take the volume.

Bottom line, do what you can do. Do it to the best of your ability. And you will improve.

Roy (above) for instance can squat everyday, no problem. But he's got some shoulder issues that prevent him from Clean and Jerkin' more than a couple times a week. He can snatch a bit more often, but the lowered frequency helps him out a lot. He's made some of his fastest gains in technique over the last few months with that reduced frequency than he has in a year, because when he is in, he can really go at it and not be worrying about pain.

[Ryan.Johnston]

That's a great system, actually. I know I like to hype the daily thing, because it works so well for many lifters. But, I regularly use 2 day a week programs with lifters who either can't get in the gym because of work/school very often, or who have nagging injuries that just can't take the volume.

Bottom line, do what you can do. Do it to the best of your ability. And you will improve.

Roy (above) for instance can squat everyday, no problem. But he's got some shoulder issues that prevent him from Clean and Jerkin' more than a couple times a week. He can snatch a bit more often, but the lowered frequency helps him out a lot. He's made some of his fastest gains in technique over the last few months with that reduced frequency than he has in a year, because when he is in, he can really go at it and not be worrying about pain.

Nick, as a side note, I am subscribed to your newsletter. I really enjoy your writing.

I wonder if I could do some power snatching as I also have shoulder impingement that makes it painful to jerk or press.

[NickHorton]

Nick, as a side note, I am subscribed to your newsletter. I really enjoy your writing.

I wonder if I could do some power snatching as I also have shoulder impingement that makes it painful to jerk or press.

Thanks, Ryan! I appreciate that!

As for power snatching, you never know till you try. For a lot of people with impingement issues, the changing of the grip makes all the difference. So, if you hurt with a jerk grip, that doesn't mean you will hurt with a snatch grip.

[igi]

Anyone has experience from Russian squat routine: http://www.dynamic-eleiko.com/sportivny/library/news/nv003.html ?

My squat numbers are still low: BS 95kg and FS 80kg. Now I have been squatting 2-3 times a week, one day BS 5x5, other FS 5x5 and sometimes third workout with lower reps BS or FS. I could give that Russian routine a try or other interesting option would be trying daily squatting maybe something like this http://www.pendlayforum.com/showpost.php?p=13642&postcount=25.

Does Nick or anyone know lifters with relative low squat maxes similar to mine who have made improvements with daily squatting? Thanks!

[CharisLouca]

whats the word on going up to daily-max triples vs daily-max singles with regards to injury prevention, as a first workout (of 3) in a week's squatting?

[Neanderthal]

How do you guys who squat daily on >90% RM deal with those small progressions?

Lets say you do a good working set on your 90% RM, slap on another five lbs on the bar and do as nice working set as the previous. The following squat session the next day do you "keep" the old 90% RM as your working weight or do you start with the "new" (so to speak) 90% RM?

I know this sounds like a utterly absurd question but I've seen many programs out there who tells you to stay on the same weight, same set, same reps for several weeks.

I'm also interested in how you guys built up the squat session. Do you start with a few sets on 90%, then a few on 95% and almost hit your 1RM?

Ofcourse on several days you'll feel so-so both physically and mentally so you'll have weak moments, others you'll have great.


Cheers.

[John Janecek]

I'm not joking when I say that I go out of my way to cultivate a culture of laziness in my gym. We train a lot, every day, sometimes twice a day, squatting all the dang time. And with the exception of Brandon, most of us are "past our primes".

This kind of frequency wouldn't be possible if we were always going out of our way to kill ourselves. Instead, we attempt something hard, if it goes well, we add weight. If it doesn't, we stop.


You are the same age as John Broz. He has said (and I agree - paraphrase) that you are more likely to get injured squatting twice a week than everyday. What Pman said, above, is an example of that.

The reason is multi-fold. But, two of them are these:

1. If you squat every day, then you are too tired most of the time to honestly hit a "max". Broz says your muscles can't contract hard enough with that amount of fatigue and that inability saves you. That may or may not be the reason, but the fact is that you just can't get near your honest-to-God maxes when you squat daily.

So, even when you get stronger and you are lifting bigger weights than your previous maxes, you are actually even stronger still ... but you would need to taper to find out by how much.

2. You mellow out. That is, You stop attacking each workout with the mindset of a Powerlifter in competition. It becomes a routine activity. Sure, you work hard, you try, but you don't go till your nose bleeds!

The goal is great technical movements. Have the mindset of someone at a driving range, not a bodybuilder in the gym trying to "blast his guns".

Every workout is a practice session where you do your best to lift weights with great form. If you make a lift with good form, add weight. If you don't, either stay low or walk out the door.



NICK,

ARE ANY OF YOUR MASTERS LIFTERS "STRONG ENOUGH" IN THE SQUAT DEPT THAT THEY NEVER GET BURIED IN THE OLIFTS YET STILL SQUAT EVERY WORKOUT? I HAVE TALKED TO GLENN ABOUT THIS AND HE SAYS THAT IN GENERAL THAT AS YOU PROGRESS AS A MASTER YOU DON'T NEED TO SQUAT AS MUCH AND MAYBE EVEN DO A FEW MORE bb EXERCISES? IT WOULD SEEM YOU WOULDN'T NEED TO SQUAT AS MUCH IF IT WASN'T A WEAKNESS?

BUT.....

THE PARTS IN THIS THREAD WHERE PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THINGS NOT BEING SO SORE AND INJURIES SEEMING TO GO AWAY BY SQUATTING EVERY WORKOUT MAKE THIS INTERESTING TO ME, I STILL COMPETE AT AGE 45 AND WANT MY TOTAL TO GO UP-ITS MY MAIN GOAL SO I'M FOR ANYTHING THAT WILL HELP IT.

I LIFT 4XWEEK EITHER DOING THE OLIFTS MON-THUR AND STRENGTH STUFF (SQUATS/PRESSES) TUE-FRI OR SPLIT THE OLIFTS UP AND DO ONE WORKOUT OF SNATCH/PRESSES ON MON-THUR AND THE OTHER WORKOUT C+J/SQUATS ON TUE-FRI....

THANKS,JOHN

[thenewday007]

I am a newer here.Glad to meet u.Is anyone online?

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[vikingstrong]

this is the best thread ever! anyways just wondering what your thoughts would be on daily rep maxes and if anyone has tried that?

[Chris Theo]

Great thread--

I sprained my wrist badly during a clean and so have been hammering away at squats and pulls. I have been squatting 5-6 days a week using pieces of the Hepburn program (5-8 singles, then back off for volume) for 1 month so far. 3 back, 3 front. I auto-regulate. Typically in the 4th week of a cycle, my body just forces me to cut volume. I also emphasize extremely upright torso--I will grind a squat out but only if I have perfect form. If i miss, i miss quickly. I too have found that I feel less sore, have less joint pain etc and more able to hit my limit lifts on any given day. I can now hit my previous back squat PR 170kg just about any day. FS is closing in on 155, hope to BS 185kg this weekend.

The first day is typically working to a heavy single and getting as many singles as I can with it, anywhere from 4 to 8, then drop back to 5x3 (the following week, I will use the same weight and get 5x4, the next week 5x5, then up the weight).

Next day, I work up to a front squat single (usually fatigued, however this number creeps up every week).

Third day, I work up to a heavy double in the back squat.

Fourth, I'll typically use Nick's Squat Nemesis for front squat (heavy single, drop back and work back up using triples, then 2x5 with something light focusing on speed out of the hole).

Fifth, light front squats for 3s or 5s focusing on speed.

Sixth, work up to heaviest possible single in back squat.


As I adapt to the frequency, I may change things up. I like Glenn's idea of allowing a day of rest after a heavy volume day. I also would like to have a 3rd heavy fs day. Maybe something like this:

Day 1 - bs singles and volume
Day 2 - light squat as recovery or no squat
Day 3 - Front Squat nemesis
Day 4 - heavy bs single or double
Day 5 - heavy fs single
Day 6 - heavy bs single
Day 7 - heavy fs single

What do you all think?

I also like how Brian noted his singles had shot up, so he decided to focus on volume at lower percentages to strengthen the hips etc. I think that's part of intelligent auto-regulating and will probably aid injury prevention.