Cutting Second Pull Short on the Clean

[Derek Binford]

As you guys can see on the videos I've posted I am just having tons of trouble with the clean. Snatch seems to be coming along nicely, but I keep cutting the second pull short with anything even semi heavy. I feel like up to 185ish I look pretty good but with anything above that I start cutting it short.

It's weird, as the weight gets heavier and the bar slows down even at 225 it starts to feel heavy and slow and because it feels heavy and slow I feel like I can't get my body in the right position for the second pull. But for someone who can snatch 205 I dont feel like a 225 clean should feel heavy and slow? I'm just kinda frustrated at this point and not sure what to do.

Should I just keep drilling with light weight until i've got the form down like it's second nature? Any other suggestions? I'll try anything that will help. Thanks.

[Denver Buchanan]

You'll get the hang of it, man. Heavy cleans generally feel, well, heavy off the floor. The weight feels like a ton in the first pull. A 225 deadlift may be a breeze, but that weight will feel much heavier in the clean. The positions are totally different, as you're more over the bar, and it's just going to feel damn heavy.

Whenever I've been told that I'm cutting the pull short, I was instructed to drill muscle snatches/cleans and snatch/clean pulls. In addition to performing the full lifts.

[Derek Binford]

Well I was thinking of continuing to drill with lighter weights and hitting some heavy clean pulls to get used to heavier weights. I have done some muscle snatch, but not muscle cleans. So maybe as i warm up I can hit muscle cleans, hit the full clean with weight where form is good, then hit clean pulls?? Sound like a decent idea?

[Denver Buchanan]

I thought some other people might chime in, but yah... that sounds like a good plan to me. That's basically what I was told to do. Just think about "getting tall" and getting a full extension as you're warming up. Make sure you have it down before you move the weight up. As the weight goes up, you'll start doing power cleans where you just go ahead and squat down, then eventually full cleans.

Speaking of making sure you have it down before you move the weight up... did you guys see this video of Cao Lei warming up?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xa7fqz_cao-lei-warming-up-in-beijing-1-2_sport

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xf05mb_cao-lei-warming-up-in-beijing-2-2_sport

She repeats the same light weights over and over and over... and this is her warm-up prior to competition. I broke a sweat just watching the video.

[texaslifter]

Well I was thinking of continuing to drill with lighter weights and hitting some heavy clean pulls to get used to heavier weights. I have done some muscle snatch, but not muscle cleans. So maybe as i warm up I can hit muscle cleans, hit the full clean with weight where form is good, then hit clean pulls?? Sound like a decent idea?

You can also do tall cleans (clean pull-under, same thing). This is where you use a light weight, stand up with the weight, and without dipping, pull yourself down under the bar. You have to extend up to give yourself enough time to get under the bar in a full clean. Greg Everett has demo's on his website, cathletics.com. That and the other things already mentioned will get you there.

[Derek Binford]

I thought some other people might chime in, but yah... that sounds like a good plan to me. That's basically what I was told to do. Just think about "getting tall" and getting a full extension as you're warming up. Make sure you have it down before you move the weight up. As the weight goes up, you'll start doing power cleans where you just go ahead and squat down, then eventually full cleans.

Speaking of making sure you have it down before you move the weight up... did you guys see this video of Cao Lei warming up?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xa7fqz_cao-lei-warming-up-in-beijing-1-2_sport

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xf05mb_cao-lei-warming-up-in-beijing-2-2_sport

She repeats the same light weights over and over and over... and this is her warm-up prior to competition. I broke a sweat just watching the video.

Wow that warmup is pretty rediculous!

[crackyflipside]

You can also do tall cleans (clean pull-under, same thing). This is where you use a light weight, stand up with the weight, and without dipping, pull yourself down under the bar. You have to extend up to give yourself enough time to get under the bar in a full clean. Greg Everett has demo's on his website, cathletics.com. That and the other things already mentioned will get you there.

This helps me a lot, especially with cleans.

[drdiran]

Derek,

I don't work with elite lifters like most guys on this forum, I work with young kids. My son is 7, so I try to use simple cues. We don't talk about pulling technique, or second pulls. What I tell him is "Push your heels slow, then see how fast you can get low."

That simple thought keeps his back flat off the floor, gets him to speed up with the second pull, triple extend, and into a proper receiving position without talking about any of it.

Try that cue and see what you think.

"Push your heels slow, then see how fast you can get low."

Dr. Drian

[COACHMCCAULEY]

Derek,

I just looked at a video of your cleans. Your arms stay vertical as you leave the floor and the bar doesn't come in towards you much, if any amount. Your torso stays almost exactly at the angle it is at the Set, all the way through the 1st pull.

Your strength, rythym and speed look good.

However, in my opinion, if you don't get the idea of squeezing the bar inward from the start of the pull, angling those arms and bowing a bit, you will always "cut the pull" in the clean. The bar is never getting closer to you in the first pull and anyone who pulls like that will reach a limit of strength, at which they can no longer keep accelerating the bar upwards and they will "feel" the weight. A change in pull line is, again, in my opinion, what you need.

Coach DonMc.

[Derek Binford]

I really appreciate you taking the time to look at my videos, but let me see if i get what you are saying.

So as the bar is passing my knees my torso angle should be greater with the bar closer to me and my arms angled? Are there any tips for retraining my pull line?

[crackyflipside]

I really appreciate you taking the time to look at my videos, but let me see if i get what you are saying.

So as the bar is passing my knees my torso angle should be greater with the bar closer to me and my arms angled? Are there any tips for retraining my pull line?

Learn to use your lats to pull bar into body, don't pull body to the bar. When you pull your body to the bar, you lose leverage and position. Pay attention to their body positions relative to what the bar is doing. Pulling the bar INTO the body. Your video shows the bar moving straight up, the leverage is poor that way even with clean. Both videos here were world records.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMbne7N4hyA#t=0m50s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsMAwamiTJk#t=1m20s

You can do this in warm-ups to feel how your lats should tighten in the pull, remember to try to maintain that torso angle until bar is in the hip: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/crackyflipside/lifting/pullstle.jpg

Yeah, as the weight gets heavier the bar will travel less towards the lifter, but even if it travels in only a few centimeters there is still good leverage on the bar. A bar moving straight up may be the easiest way to pull a weight up to the hips, but we are not doing deadlifts, we are interested in putting the bar in the best position before we extend and launch the bar up.

[Derek Binford]

Thanks man I appreciate it I will start working on this tomorrow.

[COACHMCCAULEY]

Derek,

As the bar gets past the knees, the torso should bow slightly as you continue to squeeze it towards you. This occurs prior to the dkb, as the knee nears its max. angle in the first pull.

Key in this move is leaving the shoulders forward during the pull, tightening the lats to move the bar inward in conjunction with moving from the forefeet to the rear when directing your push through the platform, during the first pull.

The outcome is that the bar moves closer to your center in the 1st pull and helps keep it closer in the second, allows the knees to be extended further before the initiation of the dkb and helps you to increase the acceleration of the bar simply because it it nearer to your hips, requiring no real gain of strength to lift heavier weights.

Try just standing, keeping your arm straight and fisting your hand, as if holding a bar. Have someone put their hand behind your fist and offer resistance. You push the fist to the rear (keeping arm straight)against the pressure, leaving your shoulder forward and tightening your lat on that side.

This move should be made with both hands when you lift the bar from the platform. Your knees should drive to the rear, keeping your torso angle the same at first, and your weight should shift ot the rear of the feet for the first pull. You should create a diagonal angle coming towards you with the line of the bar. If you are hitting your knees or shins, they have to move to the rear sooner.

Call me if this isn't clear. 912-484-5842

[Derek Binford]

Coach thanks for the tips, I worked on it tonight, i'm obviously not there yet but it definitely helped a ton. I hit a PR on snatch and clean tonight and clean didnt feel very heavy on the pull, felt good and explosive. Will continue to work on it. Thanks alot guys.